Finding Strength After Tragedy – A Mother’s Journey

[00:00:00] Since that day I made a vow when I did a eulogy at his funeral and I said that Jake’s death would not be in vain. And the third words out of my mouth was, our son died of a heroin overdose. No, I’m not proud. That’s how he died, but that’s how he died. And the more that we talk about it, the more people understand it.

Welcome to another episode of the Onward Podcast. This is your host, Emily Harmon. In this episode, I interview my friend Ginger Rosea. Ginger is a mother of four, and she raised her children in Calvert County, Maryland. She was a stay-at-home mother for most of the points in her children’s life and a working mom.

When she was older, she was involved in the Parent Teachers Association. She was the little league president. Her family home was known as the Kool-Aid House. Her family on the outside looked like every normal [00:01:00] family, but substance abuse doesn’t discriminate substance abuse. Impacts normal families. In fact, do we even know what a normal family really is?

Per the National Institute on Drug Abuse, every day more than 130 people in the United States die after overdosing on opioids. 130 people. The misuse of an addiction to opioids, including prescription painkillers, heroin, and synthetic opioids, such as Fentanyl, is a serious national crisis that affects public health as well as social and economic welfare.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that the total economic burden, a prescription opioid misuse alone in the United States is 78.5 billion. With the B dollars a year, that includes the cost of healthcare loss, productivity, addiction treatment, and criminal justice involvement. When I worked [00:02:00] for the Department of the Navy, I would go to different commands and speak about this crisis, trying to educate people on the fact that this.

Epidemic is impacting the Navy’s workforce, whether directly or indirectly, because the Navy and all organizations, all places of employment across the country have people that are working there that are dealing with somebody in their family, or a close friend or relative that is addicted to prescription drugs.

So if you don’t think this impacts you, take another look around, talk to people, talk about it. And you might find a different story, and even if it’s not impacting you directly, see what your attitude is about mothers who have lost children to opioid overdoses. If your attitude is that, well, they’re just a bad mom, or they weren’t really involved in their [00:03:00] family, think again because although my son used drugs and alcohol, That didn’t mean I was a bad parent.

I was a good parent. Ginger is a good parent. This disease doesn’t discriminate. Ginger Rose’s son, Jake lost his fight with addiction to a heroin overdose on July 19th, 2013. Within three months, ginger started the not-for-profit advocates for a drug-free Calvert County, and she has lobbied tirelessly in the Maryland House and Senate in support of advocacy bills for those with addiction.

Ginger has been interviewed multiple times for her work by Washington News channels and Jake’s story has been featured in a documentary which aired in Paris at the Fed Up rally where Ginger also served as a reporter for the day. Her interviews have been published in the Maryland Family Healthcare Magazine and the Forbes ebook Fight, the Fix published in May [00:04:00] of 2019.

Ginger has met with Michael Botticelli. The director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy under President Obama, and most recently Ginger served as the guest speaker at the second annual Tri-County Memory Walk, which is in Charles County, Calvert County and St. Mary’s County in May of this year.

To honor the memory of those lost to addiction, Ginger’s commitment, compassion, and determination make her a sought after advocate for change as improved responses to the opioid crisis or sought. Ginger has presented at the Medical Safety Conference, the behavioral conference for the Knights of Columbus annual meeting, just to name a few.

She also sits on the, not My Child, the panel. For Anne Arundel County and tells her story about her son Jake, to help educate parents on the signs and symptoms of substance abuse. Ginger now works for the Maryland Coalition of Families as a family peer support specialist, and her territories [00:05:00] are Calvert Charles St.

Mary’s, prince Georges in Anne Arundel Counties in the state of Maryland. She provides families the support they need while their loved one is in crisis and helps families deal with the disease of addiction. Let’s start the interview. Hi Ginger. Welcome to Onward Podcast. Hi Emily. Thanks for having me. So you and I met at a parents affected by addiction meeting and that meeting, I don’t know, it was probably three or four, four years ago, I think that we met and I was going because of, of issues that I was dealing with my son, and that’s where we met and I learned your story.

And I really am thankful that you’re on this podcast because you are a great example of someone who has turned their pain into purpose. You’ve experienced a lot and could easily just kind of hide under the covers every day. But you don’t. You get up and you’re helping other people, which I really admire.

And you tell us your story. So my whole story about Jake. [00:06:00] Sure. Who is Jake? Tell our, so Jake is my son who at the age of 15 had an accident on his bicycle. And so, um, he had to have surgery and he was prescribed pain meds and his father and I gave him his pain meds for about four or five months. Percocet, Oxycontin, Vicodin, never really told, thought that it was gonna be a problem, was never told that this could potentially be a problem for Jacob as far as using substances.

Jake went to the doctor one day and the doctor said, how are you feeling? And he said, I’m, I’m good. And the doctor said, okay, well you don’t need any more pain medicine. And um, Jake by that point was addicted to pain meds and so he started getting them from friends. Friends of friends and did that for a couple of years.

Do you know if he knew he was addicted or that once the doctor said, you can’t have him anymore, that’s kind of how he started to realize. Do you know? I think he didn’t know he was addicted. I [00:07:00] think that he just took them every day because we gave them to him, and so your body depends on that, and so you don’t produce the same endorphins and things like that once you take these prescribed medicines.

And so when he. Started feeling sick. Then I think that he’s like, you know what? Hey, this medicine made me feel better. I need it. So back then you could get 150 Percocets at a time, and one of his friend’s grandmother would send him her grandson to school to sell them. What year was this? So this was probably in 2000 and.

Nine, because Jake died in 2013, so he graduated high school. He was, when we realized that he had a problem, we sent him to treatment and he did. Well. He only went once. He did some sober living, which was a terrible place to be. It was just a. Sober living homes should be nice homes. They shouldn’t be flop houses, in my opinion.

[00:08:00] And we paid quite a bit of money, a weekly for him to live in a flop house. And, um, then Jake got hisself together and, um, went to meetings. He preferred an A instead of AA and had a sponsor and stuff and was about two years sober, re-injured himself. Had to be, had to have surgery. The doctor gave him pain meds.

Jacob told the doctor that he was in recovery. The doctor said, oh son, a little bit of time you’ll be on this medicine. You’ll be fine. I beg Jake not to fill the prescription. He was 23 at the time. He had the surgery, went back to work, the pills ran out. I got a call from someone else that who was using heroin to say that Jake was using heroin, and I of course confronted him and he denied it, and I didn’t understand heroin.

I thought that we beat the pill thing, so maybe we could. Heroin was. Easy thing to beat. And um, when I confronted him again, when I saw some bruises on his arms and things [00:09:00] like that, of course he denied it. And then we had to go to court one day and he had a positive urine for morphine and morphine is heroin.

And so I said, aha, I’ve gotcha now. And, um, the last things that he said to me was pretty pretty, mama. I got this. And in my mom brain at the time, I thought, he’s got this. And I, I know exactly what you mean about mom brain. I went on vacation with my granddaughter and I was six hours away, and I got the call on a Friday morning, July 19th, 2013, that his dad and younger brother, who was a senior in high school at the time, had found him dead in the bathroom.

Since that day I made a vow when I did a eulogy at his funeral. And I said that Jake’s death would not be in vain. And the third words out of my mouth was, our son died of a heroin overdose. No, I’m not proud. That’s how he died, but that’s how he died. And the more that we talk about it, the more people understand it.

And um, in [00:10:00] 2013, it was very hush, hushed. It was still a problem, but we didn’t talk about it like we do today. That’s the year he passed away in 2013. Yep. But there’s more and more people that are putting in the obituary, the actual cause of death. I think that the numbers of that we hear in the public about the number of people dying from drug overdoses and heroin overdoses is greatly understated because the cause of death could be something kind of related, but.

It’s not always the direct cause of death, so it doesn’t count. Right. And I think it’s also underrated because I don’t think, we think about the, our elder generation are better in their seventies and eighties that take prescribed medicine and then forget that they took it and take it again and take it again.

And they’re not gonna do an autopsy on somebody that’s 80 years old. And so I think that the numbers. Are higher than what we think, [00:11:00] you know? And now that fentanyl’s out on the street, it’s, you know, and they’re lacing cocaine with fentanyl. It just is very, very dangerous. And so I’ve kind of, my background is in marketing.

If Jake hadn’t have passed away, I would still be working where I used to work, but I vowed that his death would not be in vain. And I mean, The first event I went to, Jake had only been gone three months, the fed up rally, and I’ve just kind of made it my mission to do whatever I can do so no other family has to live this new normal that our family lives.

Because we all know, or we all should know, that any type of substance use or any kind of mental health disorder is a family disease. It doesn’t just affect the one that’s using the substance or that has the mental illness. It affects the whole entire family and friends. What defines family? Anybody that cares about somebody?

Does it have to be a parent or a sibling or aunt or uncle? It could be just a concerned friend. Well, what would you advise to parents who [00:12:00] recognize that their, their child has an addiction to drugs or alcohol or heroin, but they’re kind of ashamed. So they just kind of hide behind that shame. How would you So I would say, when I tell my story, right, I say, there’s no shame in my game, right?

And there isn’t. And I believe that. Substance use addiction, whatever you wanna call it, is a disease. And so we wouldn’t be ashamed that our child had cancer or we wouldn’t be ashamed that our child had diabetes. And so there is no shame, something that is treatable. So it takes a lot for a parent to walk into a pab a meeting or to walk into an Al-Anon meeting, or to even call me and say, ginger, how can you help me?

So they just need to talk about it and understand it. And I think that’s what nowadays, if you don’t understand that we have an epidemic on our hands. I mean, you’re living in unicorn land, right? Cause we do, so [00:13:00] I’ll give you, you don’t know what you don’t know, but I also will say, you don’t know what you don’t want to know.

And so the more we talk about it, the more people understand it. We’ll tell you, my mom was a sh. Ashamed that Jake was using drugs, and she would say, all of my friend’s sons are going to the Naval Academy or grandkids, and my grandson is in jail. Because at the time Jake was in jail for drinking and driving, and now she says, My grandson died of a heroin overdose.

And when she says that to her friends that are in their seventies, they say, oh my goodness. So is my grandson or my granddaughter, or my niece or my nephew. And it opens up a whole conversation. And that’s the whole key is that we need to talk about it and not be ashamed about it. Because I will say, which you can’t see me, or people can’t see me, but what does the mother of a heroin addict look like?

There is no, look, it can happen to anyone. All post your picture and they can look, but you know, it can, it can happen [00:14:00] to anyone. I never thought that, or this would be the journey that our family was taking, but this is the journey that we’re on. Yes. And I agree that the more people talk about it and the less it becomes, Less of a stigma that there is.

And I agree that when you talk about it, it’s surprising to see how many people raise their hand and say, me too. In fact, I was at a, at an event for senior executives within the Department of the Navy, and it was a training for a week and we had to go around the room and you know how they have. An icebreaker.

We have the same, no one really knows about you. So I talked about parents affected by addiction, PBA parents, and how we help people who have children that are abu or loved ones that are abusing drugs. Um, a lot of it is heroin. And I said, I betcha there’s somebody in this room and there’s only like 25 of us that had been impacted.

I the heroin epidemic, and the very last [00:15:00] person to speak, this was in the, uh, the spring, said that his son passed away in November from a heroin overdose. So it’s right around you. It is right around, I mean, it’s everywhere. If you’re listening and don’t think that you’re. That, you know, somebody that’s impacted.

I think that you’re, that you’re wrong. I can say that I do a lot of speaking engagements and I was speaking at this one organization and, um, you never know what’s going on in someone else’s home. And I was telling Jake’s story and when I tell Jake’s story and talk about what I do, there’s video of our family playing behind us from the day he was born until the day that he passed.

I invite you into my life. In our life. And she was like, I looked out and, and she was, um, just sobbing, sobbing, sobbing. And it was in front of several hundred, p hundred people. And afterwards I said, are you okay? And she said, oh my gosh. You know, my brother just passed [00:16:00] away two weeks ago from an overdose and I didn’t know that it would affect me hearing you talk the way that it did.

So now before I talk even in front of police officers, I will say, What we’re gonna discuss may be a trigger because I don’t know what’s going on in your household. And so if you need to take five and step out for a minute, go ahead and step out for a minute because you never know what is happening in someone else’s world.

I’ve learned so much by doing this for so long because I would’ve never said that. Now, that’s, uh, kind of how I start things, you know what I mean? What we’re gonna talk about is real, and I keep it real. And if it gets too much or if it you feel that it’s affecting you personally, then you know, step out.

No judgment ever by me. Yeah. Do sometimes judge me. I think so. Do I think that people judge the fact that that’s how Jake Patty died was a, a heroin overdose? Absolutely. And that’s, that’s a shame because you know what? Doesn’t matter how he [00:17:00] died. Right. A loss is a loss. Oh. I had somebody, a three-star admiral tell me once.

That addiction would never happen in his family because they, they were good parents and they ate dinner together every night and they knew what was going on. It would never happen. And that admiral was just naive. And you know, we ate dinner every night, you know, together too. Unless it was ball season and.

That kind of stuff. And so, you know what? Sometimes things just happen. Nobody wakes up and says, I wanna be an addict. It happens before you know it. And I just think that education is a key. I believe in harm reduction. I believe in things now that six years ago I would’ve been like, I am not even discussing that with you.

That is, but I believe in harm reduction. What? Harm reduction. So the needle exchange ban. Yes. I believe in that. I believe in safe injection sites until somebody’s ready to stop using substances. Let’s be smart about [00:18:00] how we use things. I tell parents, if you know that your son or daughter is using substances, tell them to tell you where they’re going to be in case they don’t come back in five minutes and I make sure that they have Narcan.

I don’t know if you remember, but when I got Narcan certified back in 2014, I couldn’t find a doctor because then you needed a doctor when you gave out the medicine. I couldn’t find anybody that would help me. Until I finally found this one. Amazing man. Now you can go to the pharmacy without a prescription and get Narcan.

Explain what Narcan is and why would somebody want to have that in their purse or carry. So I carry Narcan everywhere I go, or Naloxone. It is the opioid reversal drug. And so it’s an EMTs and police carry it. It’s just in a nasal spray and you spray it up someone’s nose and. If they’re still alive or wouldn’t have saved Jake, because Jake had already been gone about [00:19:00] five hours before they found him, but it brings them out.

It blocks the opiates and it’s an opiate receptor blocker, and so it brings someone out of an overdose. And so if I was overdosing and you gave me Naloxone or Narcan, I would go. And I would be awake and I would be able to go to the hospital and maybe in that time window I might decide I wanna go to treatment.

Maybe I’ve heard some people wake up mad that they’re well, so I’ve given it and I gave it to a young man and he was mad, he was angry. And I said, let me tell you something, you little rat. But that’s, I used. I just saved your life so you can be mad all you want. And unfortunately, you know, a year and a half later, this young man too lost his life.

But for that day he didn’t. And when I will be honest with you, when I hear someone say, I’m tired of giving so and so, the same Narcan going into the same house, [00:20:00] it doesn’t matter if you’re revived five times or one time, right? Everybody should have the chance of the help that they need and deserve. I think that’s the word that we forget is deserve.

Everybody deserves the chance at a happy, healthy life, whatever that is for that person. We tell somebody who has cancer and went into remission after using, after going through chemo, would we say to them, sorry, if you got cancer again, right? You’re done. You’re done. We’ve already given you one. Right? One those.

But there is a judgment right there. Is I a stigma that goes along with using substances and so that’s something. Have zero tolerance for. And so I work really hard against that because, or when people say, why isn’t my insulin free when narcan’s free, narcan’s not free, I’ll give it to you for free because I get, somebody gives it to me, but someone pays for it.

So it’s not, that kind [00:21:00] of stuff sets me insane. Right. And because there’s still people who feel that addiction is an issue of. Just self-restraint. Just self right choice. It’s a choice. Choice. Jake’s dad would say, you wouldn’t drink gasoline, so why are you doing this? Well, two different things, right? It is confirmed in medical books, right, that addiction is a disease, and so we need to treat it as one.

I think we’ve gotten a lot better at understanding it, but we still have a long way to go. Well, we’ve gotten a lot better because of people like you. Can you explain the Good Samaritan law and how you helped get that passed? Gosh, so, um, my mom and I had a meeting with N C A D D and uh, N C A D D, national Alcohol and Drug Council.

Um, okay. We met with them and we said, Hey, we would like to get this bill. Introduced this bill and, [00:22:00] um, they said, well, we think, well there’s only three months for while sessions in, we don’t think that it can be done. And we said, well, you know, can we, with the help of lobbyists and things like that, can we get this done?

And this is in Maryland, right? The state. This is in Maryland. And so it was on news channel four. It was a big, huge deal. We testified in, in front of some scary, scary people at the house committee and things. And, um, We just ask people to, to vote in favor for this. Bill to be a law to save lives, and it passed unanimously.

Um, what does it do? What does it allow? So if you or I were using some type of substance together and I was overdosing and you stayed with me and called 9 1 1, And you helped me or gave me Narcan or just made sure that I was breathing or just sat there with me until help got there, neither one of us would get in trouble, [00:23:00] right?

It protects us. Now if we have an outstanding felony charge, that’s a little bit different story. It’s all about saving lives, right? People drop people off on the side of the road and leave them to die because they’re afraid they’re gonna get in trouble. So that was the whole purpose of the law is so that stay with your friend.

There’s a party of 80, 75 of you, 78 of you better roll on out, right? Because the ones that stay to help, the one or two that’s making the call and staying with the person that’s overdosing, you’re not gonna get charged with paraphernalia. You’re not gonna get charged because you have drugs on you. Do all police officers respect that law?

No, but they have to. They’re supposed to, and if it goes to court, it gets thrown out. And so lots of states have the law now. Lots of states. Virginia just passed in this last session, so, but it, it’s a, it’s a good law. I. Was Marilyn the first one to pass it? No, I think it, Maryland wasn’t the [00:24:00] first one. It was the one of the first few, but one of like, I would say the first 10, but you know that New Jersey may have passed it before.

Bon Jovi was huge in that. So you’re a family peer support specialist and then is that with the Maryland Coalition of Families? Yes. So what does that mean? So that just kind of means exactly what it says. So if you were to call me up and say, Hey, ginger, you know, my son or daughter is using substances, what do I do?

I would say, um, well, What are they willing to do? And if they’re not willing to do anything, then my job is to help the caregiver of the loved one that’s using substance stay strong until their, their loved one’s ready to get help. Sometimes it’s just a phone call, like, Hey, can I have the number to this treatment facility?

And it’s 10 minutes. Other times I spend hours on the phone listening to moms or dads cry because their son or daughter doesn’t wanna get treatment. That’s, I [00:25:00] think, just the hardest thing you want to fix your child or your loved one. And you can’t, unless you can’t. Right. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink.

No amount of money is going to fix it. No, no amount of money, but so that’s what we do, right? I’m a peer, I am not a clinician, not a nurse. I’m not a doctor. I am a peer to these caregivers, and I understand because I’ve lived it. And so working with Maryland Coalition of Families, it’s a free service that my executive director hates when I say that, but, but we are, if I spend five hours with you, you never get a bill for that.

Or if I spend 30 hours with you, if you don’t drive, I drive to you. Wow. We have support groups, we do events. We have a big Annapolis Day, and it’s statewide. It’s just not for, it’s statewide in Maryland. And so there are people like me. That work on the mental health and the substance use statewide. In every, every county [00:26:00] there is one or two of us.

Some of them have four of us that work in different territories. I work in Anne Arundel, Calvert, and Prince George’s County, and now we’re lost some people. So now I do some work over on the Eastern Shore. So our viewers, our listeners, could donate to this organization. Yes. Find a link in the show notes.

Cause you definitely could use some funding I’m sure. So yeah, our executive director works really hard on grants and finding funding to, to be able to do this, to run the support groups and to, we have something just a couple of months ago what was called Let’s Talk and we invited some families and we, we got, had some food and we just talked and it was great.

And it was a safe place to talk and you wouldn’t believe what came out of the family member’s mouths. Yeah. I’m wondering cuz I remember when I lived in southern Maryland and we had different events on the opioid epidemic and sometimes it was really hard to get people to [00:27:00] go. Cause I think that they felt like, wow, that’s.

Somebody else’s kid, not my kid. It’s not impacting me. And I think it can happen a lot under people’s, no in their homes. And they don’t really recognize that their child is addicted. So how do you, do you run into that issue? Do you have trouble getting people that really need to be there to be there? So I think it depends on each county is.

A little bit different. We didn’t have any trouble getting people there in Calver when we had something a couple of months ago. But there were current, there were families that we currently work with, so I think people sometimes don’t know that there’s certain organizations or help out there. Arundel County has the safe stations.

You can go into any Firehouse 24 7 and say, help me, and they will call in mobile crisis and you will get the help you need and deserve. Wow. Tell us about Jake. What and why do you use the color green when you post things on Facebook about Jake? You have green hearts. [00:28:00] So I have four children and so, um, Jake was just the sweetest kid that I had.

He would do anything for anybody. I’m looking at his picture right now. He just was humble and kind. He loved life. Yeah. And he was just a little mischievous. Just this little, little rascal I would say to sometimes to him, you’re gonna be the death of me, always sore. You’re gonna end up dying or something.

Because he would climb the tree to the highest point and be like, whoa. Risk taker. He loved this four wheeler and just loved this family. And you know, Could he be a jerk? Sure. Anybody can be. So just a goodhearted kid and always looked out for the underdog. He didn’t care that he had the a hundred dollars shoes.

He just wanted shoes. And not that he couldn’t have a hundred dollars shoes, but that wasn’t important to him and loved animals. And I remember in Ocean City one time and. A rabbit came up to him. We [00:29:00] were where we were staying, and he pet this wild rabbit, it just, it didn’t hop away. Yeah. I’m like, you mean we had all kinds of animals and, and he just loved, just loved life and just loved people and, um, I wear, I do green because green was his favorite color.

And so that’s, I have green in my hair always. Mm-hmm. Because it makes me feel close to him. And so if I don’t know what words to say and I just respond back to you in Green Hearts, that’s because green was Jake’s favorite color. So I have a lot, sometimes my nails are green, so, uh, that’s just. Now, I guess my favorite color, and that just makes me feel close to him.

And then you had a text that he had sent you, I think it was Mother’s Day that you saved? Yes, I have that and actually I had a friend do a drawing about that text when he interpreted those word with a Happy Mother’s Day and that kind of stuff. And I have that hanging on my wall. So [00:30:00] did a, a drawing of a letter.

Was called love letters, and he did a drawing of interpreting words that Jake had written to my mom in, in the drawing, he included Jake’s words and, and at the very end he’s like, you’ll see Nana. No regrets. There are regrets, but I as losing your child to no matter what, you can’t. And I did this for a long time, should have would’ve could of myself.

And I don’t do that anymore. And I don’t know that I’ll ever accept the fact that I will never see him again, or I won’t see him again until I get to wherever he is. But I do what I do in his memory and in his honor because I’m proud to be Jacob Patty’s mom. Yeah. That’s awesome. I know that you’re helping so many people.

I know that we had this interview scheduled earlier and you couldn’t make it because a friend of yours or somebody that you were working with, their, um, child passed away. Right. And I will say, you know, I, not mobile crisis, but my phone rings sometimes at one [00:31:00] in the morning, and I answer it because I don’t know if that mom or dad.

Or wife or whoever just got that call. So they really relate to someone who has this lived experience. And we are a different breed when we lose our children to substances or alcohol or something. We are looked at differently. I just went to a retreat not too long ago that was just for. Families that had lost their loved ones to suicide or to substance use because we are judged a little bit differently.

Our child is dies of some other reason. And even if they don’t die, and even if like my son, an alcoholic at the normal age hadn’t gone to college, now he’s going to college, he’s gonna be an electrical engineer. But I felt judgment. I felt judged, but. I love my son. I don’t worry about it. I can’t let that get to me.

Right. And you know what? I love my son and my other children and you know, sometimes I get wrapped up into things too much and my other children [00:32:00] will say, Hey mom, we’re still here. And I’ll be like, oh, that’s sometimes right. We all need to get checked. Okay, if you need to spend time. My one daughter will say, mom, you wanna go to dinner?

And I’m like, I’m really tired, I’m busy. She said, oh, that’s right. But if I just did this, Or somebody else needed you, you’d be there. And I said, Touche. She, where? Where, when do you wanna have dinner? I commend you for that. It is a balancing act. We get so wrapped up sometimes in the drug world or the world that we are work in and, um, forget that there is life at beyond that.

And that has happened to me and, and so now I can recognize it. I preach self-care all the time. I’m not the best at it, but I’m getting better at it. So what are the, the main tips that you have for parents? Or when you give your presentations, what are the kinds of things that you talk about? So it’s depends on who the audience is.

So let’s say that it’s family. Sometimes it’s just what to look for in your child’s behavior or your loved one’s [00:33:00] behavior. Is there a difference in. They’re hygiene. Are they more irritable? Are you seeing spoons missing? Are you seeing caps of needles or are they isolating themselves? Just give them information like that and then parents will something, you’ll see their faces and, and they’ll be like, Oh my gosh.

They come home from school and go right to their room and I never see them again. And they don’t even wanna have dinner or change in their friends. And so we just try to educate and give, talk to kids. I mean, we go and talk with children in high school and they’ve said to us, juniors and seniors, you’re too late.

To talk to us much younger. And so now they are talking to children in elementary school and it’s kind of sad that we have to do that, but that’s a society that we live in today and so we just need to be proactive. Right. The not my child panel that I used to sit on in Anne Arundel County, it’s now it’s like, let’s no new user, [00:34:00] let’s.

Stop it before it even starts and be an advocate for yourself. I never questioned the doctor when he said, do this, this, this, and this, and he never said anything that it could be a problem. Now. I just had some dental work done and I could have used some pain medicine and I don’t know, I have a recovery wristband on my wrist, but that dentist, he said, take some Advil, and I was so proud.

Offer me any Vicodin or anything because that’s how a lot of it starts is from the dentist even. And I was talking to the receptionist and she said he doesn’t give out anything. He says, take some Advil or Tylenol and Advil and Tylenol are taken at the same time. Works just as effective as a Percocet.

It just doesn’t provide you that euphoric feeling. I remember just sharing this, I don’t want this to be about me, but just sharing another example of something I remember. I remember my son got his teeth and then he got dry and he prescription pain meds. I think it was Vicodin. And then he got, and that’s the [00:35:00] fasting, that’s the quickest one to become addicted to.

Yep. Vicodin. And then he got dry socket. So the doctor prescribed him another dose and I called the pharmacy trying to say, don’t give it to him, but he was an adult. There was nothing I could do to keep him from getting that. And that’s something that’s really. Scary as a parent, but what would you recommend to, I guess another tip is if you’re missing jewelry, if you notice things are missing, you know, or if, if they’re asking you for money all the time and they don’t have anything to show for it, I never gave Jake.

Money, but Ile would always give him food when I knew that he was in active use or he could take a shower or something like that. But every family handles things a little bit different, but just look for signs. And I think sometimes we see stuff but we don’t wanna see it cuz we think that this isn’t happening to me right when we do that.

But you know what? It doesn’t make our loved one a bad person. No. They just had some bad choices [00:36:00] or in Jake’s case, was on medicine for so long that his body became dependent on it. What do you advise to somebody who has a child that’s addicted and isn’t working, isn’t fun to live with, isn’t really holding up their bargain, but they’re living with you at home.

At what point do you say that’s enough? You’ve gotta move out. What’s enabling versus what’s helping? So, you know what? I think that giving somebody a. Food. I don’t consider that enabling, that’s just my opinion. I don’t consider, um, I would never give someone that I knew was using drugs money. That’s enabling.

If they want some cigarettes, go buy them cigarettes if they want get, if they need gas in their car, go buy, put gas in their car. But I think it’s different for every family. You know, every family has a certain tolerance level of what’s gonna be allowed in their home or not in their home. And so, Think at the end of the day, you need to be okay with you.

Say, you know what, Jake, you’re outta here. And if Jake [00:37:00] overdoses and something happens, That you don’t blame yourself. And so that’s what I think families struggle with sometimes when it comes to tough love, because it’s hard living with someone who is in active use and they don’t clean, they don’t go to work.

All they do is sleep all day and they’re not nice to be around and things like that. I see. I deal with parents that say, you know what? He’s outta here or she’s outta here. And I said, that’s fine, right? I don’t think there’s a right or wrong because every family is different. It’s what you’re comfortable with if something happens.

It’s not your fault. Right? And that’s hard, right? Because I said if I hadn’t understood heroin, I would’ve put Jake in the car that day and taken him somewhere. But in my mom brain, I thought we could handle it. And not everybody’s story ends like mine. I wouldn’t do what I do if I did not believe in recovery.

I [00:38:00] believe recovery is possible. I believe in pain medicine. When I dislocated my shoulder, I needed some pain medicine, so I am not anti medicine or anything like that. I just think we need to be aware. And know that stuff happens to any type of family. Doesn’t matter if you’re white, black, green, or yellow, rich or poor, or any of those things.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people. And I think if the stigma would start to go away, which it has, then that helps more and more people talk about it. And then that helps with these support groups. And then when you’re wondering, what should I do in this situation, you at least have someone to go to.

I know that it could be. Very hard on a marriage too, cuz you can oh, oh, how to handle it. It’s very hard on a marriage on how to handle it because a lot of times it’s the mother who’s more of the protector and the father is like, get him out or Get her outta here. And it’s just a hard [00:39:00] situation and so, Not often are both mom and dad on the same page, and when they are, that’s a great thing.

But so we try to get everybody on the same page and, and until your loved one is ready to get the help they need and deserve, then we need to focus on you. Making sure that you’re healthy, right, because you can’t pour from an empty cup. That’s exactly right. While our loved one is doing their thing and we hope that they’re safe about how they’re doing their thing, then we need to focus on mom and dad and brother and sisters so that they’re okay.

And that’s exactly right too. The other kids, cause you can just go crazy and spend all your. Time and energy and effort. And the other child’s like, well, what about me? Right? And, and hey, that’s a perfect example. You know, I have three other children and they’re like, Hey, what about me? And it’s frustrating sometimes because I try to get, and I didn’t go myself either, but I try to get the children to go to grief support groups and I, because I think they can be very, very helpful.

But none of my [00:40:00] kids would go. And I will tell you that the last thing that Jake said to his one sister was not very nice. And she’ll never forget that. She knows that Jake loved her, but you can’t, there are no do-overs. And just like for me, I had to accept the fact that I went on vacation and I thought we could handle it when I got home, but when I got the call and it was already over, I, I met you before the one year anniversary of Jake’s death.

I’m pretty sure. I’m pretty sure that’s when I met you. And so I’ve just seen you come such a long way, ginger. That’s what everyone will say, and that is so nice to hear. I have people that, the first time I spoke at, at this medical safety conference, there was like 300 people there, and then I spoke there the next year and, and the people that asked me to speak, they’re like, oh my gosh, ginger, the way that you.

Carry yourself and handle yourself and things you have like grown so much and, and I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned a lot from people that are struggling cuz you can learn so much from someone [00:41:00] that is using substances. I mean, these. Some of these things that these young people and even older people tell me, freak me out.

But I’m also learned what is going on in their head because the more that I understand what they’re dealing with, the better that I can try and help them. And even these families, you know, the, these moms and dads that I’ve met and my sister, moms and dads, I mean, we are a, a tight knit group. That I know that I can call five, unfortunately, friends that have lost their children and they know that I’m gonna have a nervous breakdown and they know how to handle it.

So what are the people that are using the drugs? What are some of the things that they’re telling you? So what’s on their mind? What are they thinking? You know, a lot of ’em just started like Jake, this one young man, he just said that a friend offered him a pill and he just took it. And this other young girl said that she had a lot of trauma in her background and so she wanted to numb the pain.

And what better way to numb the pain then [00:42:00] with something that’s gonna make you feel good? Whether that’s could be candy. So that is we go to whatever’s going to make us feel better and then they just, then it becomes a job. I spent the day, one day with this young man and watched him hustle all day long from place to place to place to get what he needed that day, to not get dope sick, and I was exhausted.

But he said, you wanna see what my life is like? And now I will tell you, he’s got two years sober. That’s awesome. But every waking moment was going around trying to find, find the drug and make sure that the guy that said he was going to be there was there with the drug and make sure that the cops weren’t following you.

It was crazy. It was scary and it was crazy. But at that time, right. They need what they need because they don’t wanna get dope sick. Yeah. And I will tell you, I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for dope sick because if we get the flu, we get the flu. Now, being dope sick is a lot worse than having the flu.

But [00:43:00] you can get through it. And that’s when people get scared is, is that, oh my gosh, I’m going to have to detox and I’m not gonna feel good for a week. And then I say, but after that week, You have a whole new life ahead of you and you can go to hospitals and detox or detox naturally. And I mean, and so when people are ready to get help, help is out there.

It’s just, I was, this young man last night said to me, he said, you know what, ginger, do you think it’s easy to make that phone call to ask for help? And I said, well, nobody’s really ever asked me that question. I said, Is it easy? And he said, no, it’s not easy to make that call to ask for help because that that’s a, shows a sign for a lot of us that we are weak.

And I said, well, I will tell you that that shows me that you’re strong. Yes, I completely agree. And I said, so when you’re ready for that help know that if you were, whoever you call, when you’re ready to make that call, you will not be [00:44:00] received by judgment or shame. You’ll be received by, how can I help you?

Live the life that you deserve to live. Every single person on this podcast that’s talked about overcoming adversity has talked about the need for getting to get help, the importance of getting help, and I agree that is a sign of strength. I do too. But in someone that I. That already feels beaten and broken.

They think that that’s a sign of weakness. And I just think that we need to remind them every day that your life is worth living. And if you’re wanna continue to snort pills, I’m gonna still love you, but when you’re ready for that help, I’ll be with you to make that hard call, right? To get you that help that you need and deserve.

So I just think we just need to remind our loved ones that are struggling that you know what? There is hope, and you always have to have hope. If you don’t have anything else, you have to have hope. And I’ll pull the mom card on these young people that I [00:45:00] deal with and say, you know what? Our family’s paid the ultimate price, and if I can have hope and get myself up out of bed, then you need to have hope too.

Well, ginger, thank you so much for being on the podcast. No, thank you. It was an honor and a privilege. I’m so proud of what you’re doing and excited for this new journey that you are taking. So I hope that maybe we can, I know we tried in DC to get together. We weren’t able to, but come down, come to the mountains and We’ll, yes, I would love to.

I would love to. We’ll get together soon, and it was good speaking with you. Thank you for listening to my interview with my friend, ginger, if you haven’t already, I’d appreciate it if all of my listeners. Could open their eyes to the opioid crisis and look within their communities to see if there’s something that they can do.

One thing that you can do is if you have leftover medicines in your medicine cabinet or elsewhere in your house, take it to an appropriate disposal place. Typically [00:46:00] your police office or sheriff’s office or pharmacy will take unused drugs. Don’t flush them down the toilet. And another action that you can take is just to make sure you don’t have the attitude of, not my child.

You don’t have the attitude that this would never happen to you. This has happened to straight A students. It happens to athletes when they get injured. It happens to children when they go and get their wisdom teeth taken out. They unknowingly become addicted to the painkillers that are prescribed by their doctor.

Please share this episode with your friends and family and anyone else who you think might benefit from listening to this podcast episode. And please leave a review and engage on social media in the conversation that we’re having under Onward Podcast. If you would like more information from me, you can go to my website, emily harmon.com and subscribe to my newsletter.

Thank you for listening, and thank you to Dan Johnson for [00:47:00] this awesome music.