From Active Addiction to Saving Lives with a Servant’s Heart with Jeff Dougherty

[00:00:00] I want my daughter to know what dad used to be and what he is today, and I want her to be of service to and have that servant’s heart to be able to know that just because someone’s homeless doesn’t mean that they’re dirty. Or someone’s a drug addict, doesn’t mean that they’re forgotten. Cause a lot of us do that.

We throw away that person cause they’re on the streets right now. But you never know. I’m a living example of what you can become.

Welcome to the Onward Podcast. This is Emily Harmon. Thank you so much for listening today. In this episode, I am interviewing Jeff Doherty. I met Jeff about two years ago at a fed up rally in Washington DC and I was just so impressed with his tenacity, with his desire to help others with how he gives back, with how he owns his past, but doesn’t dwell on it.

We’ll get into the interview in a [00:01:00] minute, but first I want to read something that Jeff has posted on his Facebook page. He posted a picture of himself. And he writes, I am the face of an addict. I won’t sugarcoat it. I drank, I did drugs to the point of no return. You name it, I did it, and I’m not ashamed of my past.

Anyone who knows me knows I am an open book that offends some people, and that’s okay. It’s not their story to own, but I’m owning mine and it has helped me survive. I love who I am today. Addiction does not discriminate. At the end of the interview, I’ll read the rest of this post. Let’s get into the interview.

Jeff, welcome to the Onward Podcast. Hey, Emily. Thank you for inviting me on the podcast tonight. I really appreciate the opportunity to come out here and speak to you and speak to your uh, listeners. I’m so excited to interview you. I’ve interviewed a couple of moms who unfortunately have lost their children to opioid [00:02:00] overdoses to addiction, and I’m looking at your Facebook page right now and it says your name and then it says, Once I walked in the darkness only to find a better way to live, to give back, and to be of service every day.

And I watch your post, you go live a lot and talk about what you’re doing, can you, uh, share how you did walk Once in Darkness and how you got out of that and how you help other people? Of course. So we’ll go into a little bit about my story, just like anything I do. The first thing I always start off with is my name is Jeff and I am an addict and I am a real addict.

Just because I’m in recovery doesn’t mean that I’m still not an addict. I will be always be an addict. And, uh, once you’re an addict, I have the firm belief that we always are an addict and we have addict behavior, but we’re able to change it and see it and be able to utilize our tools better so we don’t have to drink or use operator.

So my sobriety date to start off as October 26th, 2007, so I just celebrated 12 years. Sobriety. That’s Congratulations. Thank you. It hasn’t been an easy journey. [00:03:00] I started very young at a young age around the age of 11 dabbling, and I lived in Miami with a mom that was a single mom with two kids that worked a lot.

So I didn’t really have an opportunity to have a family life, so I drew to these streets and to dealing drugs and, and fighting everything. I can remember the first time that I. Was able to deal drugs. I was working at Publix in Florida and I was, uh, bringing out groceries to grocer people’s cars for ’em, just for tips.

So I wasn’t actually working for Publix, I was just trying to make extra money. And a guy came and approached me and offered me some pretty good sum of money to be able to, to deliver a package. And in Florida and in Miami, they tend to do that a lot with youngsters because we can’t go to jail, you know, or we can, but we don’t go for long periods of time.

So that’s how that started. And then of course, through high school, getting kicked outta high school and fighting gangs. And finding different ways to numb the pain of not having a father in my life numb the pain of being poor and just in general being an angry child. So I drew away to drugs and alcohol and gangs, [00:04:00] and I started my lifecycle very young and I got kicked outta high school.

And with continuation school, I was able to join the military and actually was able to succeed in the military a little bit. Get out with an audible discharge instead of getting a dishonorable discharge. Even though I got a lot of trouble in the military, you know, I was still a knucklehead. I wanted to prove that I was me, and nobody could tell me what to do when I.

You know, I decided that, you know, I wanted to dabble some more and I found the love of my life, which was methamphetamine. Speed gave me that sense of being Superman, that sense of being somebody I wasn’t, and everybody wanted to be around me because I had the drugs and the money. So the girls come along with that and I fell into that trap.

Just being in that vicious cycle of addiction. And I can’t remember when it went from just a hobby to an addiction. I was working in nightclubs and I was doing nighttime security, and I can remember being the only one that sell dope in nightclubs and then everybody staying up till four or six in the morning partying and it was a lot of fun and everybody was drinking using, and that was a lifestyle we lived [00:05:00] and I can’t remember when it went from fun to where I had to have it every day where I went to stealing.

And taking advantage of people and being ruthless to my family and giving up everything. Cause I don’t think we really know when it switches from just fun to addiction. Super hard to, to, to pin down the time that that happened. But all I remember is that, that I was deep in my addiction. Yeah. You know?

And then I went into doing a lot of things that, that I would choose to do in normal life. You gotta remember in addiction, we tend to do a lot of stuff that we wouldn’t normally do. I don’t think anybody as a child grows up and says, Hey, I wanna be a drug addict, or, hey, Hey, I wanna be a prostitute.

That’s not the way it’s, but drugs is an obsession of the mind and body and a lot of people wanna fight over the cause of if it’s a disease or if it’s choice. And I always like to say that at first it was a choice, but then it became an addiction of the mind and body where I couldn’t stop it. It took over everything.

It took over my care for my family, my kids, my life, my freedom. It didn’t matter. I would do anything to get high. I mean, alls my life was, [00:06:00] was about getting high. And I was in bad hotel rooms and bad relationships, having. Kids with multiple different women and just going down a very dark tunnel. When I called my first prison term, I still wanted to be that guy, you know?

So of course I’m raising my hand and I’m gonna be that soldier because I was always that guy that wanted to fit in, but never really fit in. So I did whatever it took to fit in. So when I went to prison, of course, I, I. Let me do this. Let me do that. So I make a name for myself, well, three prison terms later and 12 violations later, which was a total of about 12 to 14 years of my life that I dedicated to prison.

Wow. And I always thought I would be a gang member, excon, drug addict, whatever you wanna call it. And I always thought that would be my life. I got to a point where I was just so broken down and I called my parole officer and I said, look, I got a gun, a bunch of stolen credit cards, a bunch of dope, and I’m so tired and I’m so tired of doing this.

I’m gonna either kill myself or take to jail. So she said, well, gimme 10 minutes. I’ll come you. I said, no, gimme 30 minutes. Need 30 minutes. I’m not [00:07:00] stuff the sidewalk. Well, she came and picked me up and she actually took me to rehab, which was Cooper Fellowship, which saved my life and Cooper Fellowship.

The first time going to rehab. Like many of us, that wasn’t gonna work for me because I got my rehab romance and found the girl that I fell in love with there, and we ended up, months later, we graduated, but we ended up using together and then she ended up turning me in. I was on the run for parole and all the good stuff that follows you along with that, when I got out that time from prison, I decided.

I was done. I didn’t wanna do this anymore. I had already had two kids that had already seen me in addiction that had already seen me go to jail, that had already seen me go down this path. And uh, I got out and I decided to go one more time to go to Coopers Fellowship and try it again. Uh, I did end up beating my middle daughter’s mother.

And, uh, she had a place to live. She supported me. She helped me get on my feet and helped me through my recovery. One first, she first got sober with me, and, uh, I was an advantage of saying, you know, being able to take the, what was offered to me this time and actually learn from it. It [00:08:00] wasn’t necessarily 12 steps or C B t or church or anything else that got me sober, but what got me sober was, A willingness and a desire to change everything.

Everybody I knew, everything I did, and just be so sick and tired of being sick and tired. So when I do intervention, I do interventions all over the country now. And I share a little bit of my story and they go, wow, you were really a bad guy. And I go, yeah, I was a really good guy inside, but it got bad guy that made bad decisions and didn’t really care about anything but getting high.

And I tell ’em, when you talk to your son or daughter, remember when they’re high, they’re not your son or daughter, they’re an addict at that time. They don’t care what you say, what you do. All the thinking about is how fast can I get away from these people and how fast can I get high? Nothing else matters fast as addicts and it’s sad.

I time when I. And I was, uh, talking about the hardest part of my recovery and what it was, and there was the willingness to admit that my kids weren’t as important as my drugs. My drugs were more important than my children. [00:09:00] That was a hard one for me to digest. You know, it was a hard one to understand and, and realize that I would give up anything, including my kids for drugs.

I didn’t care about my parents. I would’ve gave them up, I’d steal from them. I would’ve done anything for that. My relationships were all toxic because they were either people that used with me or I found broken women that would fit my broken mentality, and it wasn’t easy. So we’ll, fast forward a little bit.

So when I graduated Cooper Fellowship, My very first sponsor, his name was Jeff, and uh, he liked to call himself, pack Your Shit Jeff, cuz he would come in and he was a black guy and he would tell everybody, if you don’t like it, pack your shit. Get out. And uh, that’s what I needed. I needed structure and I needed someone to tell me that I couldn’t pull the wool over their eyes.

They were gonna call me on all, everything that I did. And that helped me a lot. When I graduated, I went to a get well job like most of us do, and I got a job, make a minimum wage and I, you know, I stayed there for about six years and I rose to be the owner’s right hand man. I had all the responsibilities at the shop.

I ran everything and then I got tired of it and I was always helping people on the street helping the homeless and helping people were out there. [00:10:00] But it was funny because I had never worked in treatment, so decided I’m gonna work in treatment. Had a buddy that was running a place and he said, come work with me.

So I, and I fell in love with. I fell in love with being able to talk to the people that were just like me, being able to relate to them to do things. And then I wanted to break the outreach even farther. I didn’t wanna just work in a facility. I wanted to go to the outreach where I started doing outreach on Skid Row and Ted Cities and doing things like handing out an Narcan so someone can live for another day, or handing out sock or stuff that we really needed out there on the streets when we were out there.

So I, I made a company called Foundations for Recovery, which I did that for quite a few years. And then I was tired of working for myself and I wanted the security of working for a company. So I went to for, to work for a company called Breakaway Health Corporation, which is in Costa Mesa. We’ve been around 33 years and we’re an in-network facility and we’re primary mental health.

So it doesn’t matter what insurance policy you have, we can help you. I don’t need to go out there and play the body brokering game and play the who’s got what policy, because we’re in network. So we don’t need to do that. So, I mean, I’m really [00:11:00] happy with the place that I found, and I’ve been here for a while now.

The growth is great. And the ability to deal with clients every single day. Now, my job titles, director of operations, when I call it the person being on fire trying to put out fires. Wow. Cause that, that’s what seems to be my job. All time is put out fires. Yes. But going into how I met Emily, you know I went with a buddy, my name Greg.

We went out to the fed up rally. Washington DC got to meet Emily, which she was a really superstar in the Navy and was able to do a lot of different things and I really admired the way she handled herself and the way that you handled what you did. And that’s an for me because I always respected people that were able to do that.

Thank you, Jeff. I started offering interventions all over the country. A lot of people. Didn’t have 10 or $15,000 to pay for interventions, and I thought that was really harsh because you know, if you have a family that’s hurting, why am I gonna charge you $15,000 to do an intervention when you’re already hurting financially, emotionally, physically, everything else was a loved one.

So I started doing a cost, so basically it cost [00:12:00] somebody a thousand bucks plus my hotel. And my card come out to see you and basically need to do the intervention. And I’ve done numerous, numerous ones for free that people couldn’t afford, that are local. If you’re local, I have no problem doing a free one.

Do intervention. I thought it had to be that the person really wants help. Does an intervention work? How does it work? Well, you gotta remember, so in the intervention, a lot of times, a lot of addicts are screaming for help, but just don’t know how to say it. Yeah, a lot of. Screaming for help, but don’t know what to do.

But a lot of addicts are confrontation too, and you gotta give ’em that option and no other option. But to get sober, I went through it with my 19 year old daughter, you know, I had to give her no option. But to get sober means I’m not paying for your phone bill. I’m not giving you the car. I’m not letting you live in my house.

And that’s a hard one to tell a son or daughter. Sure. Because everybody goes, well, you know what happens if they’re homeless? What happens if these are drug addicts? Drug addicts are more. App to find everything that you’d want and be able to be more conniving and get what they want better than any businessman I know.

You’re very, I watch dope. I’ll find it. Trust me, [00:13:00] I get it. It became a situation where I had to say it was her or me. Cause what I did as a parent is I started letting her addiction run my life, which means I’d take off work, I’d miss work, I’d go run to save her every time. And I couldn’t. I was killing myself to by burning the candle on both ends.

So for me, it was just a double-edged sword. I mean, I figured, okay, my daughter’s seen this. She’d been through this. She’d never, ever be able to do this. Right. Nope. She turned into a heroin addict and for two years, three years, it was a long journey. Now she’s got some sobriety time. She’s clean, she’s 19 now.

But it was super hard. I didn’t want my daughter out there doing whatever she has to do to get heroin. Yeah. And, uh, living in that cycle of just pills and disgusting and, and degradation. And, but I tell people too, I was just, we were doing a. Narcan. I park a little while ago and me and my 11 year old, I take my 11 year old out with me and everybody thinks I’m crazy, but I want my daughter to know what dad used to be and what he is today, and I want her to be of service too and have that servant’s heart to be able to know that just because someone’s homeless doesn’t mean that they’re [00:14:00] dirty or someone’s a drug addict, doesn’t mean that they’re forgotten.

Cause a lot of us do that. We throw away that person just because they’re on the streets right now. But you never know. I’m a living example of what you can become. I didn’t get silver. But we were out there at a park. I met a lady that used to be a doctor and she had an accident and she got hooked on pills and she lost it all.

Living in a grocery cart at a park in Costa Mesa after being a doctor and living in Emerald Bay with a million dollar house and everything else, she lost it all over pain pills. So you never know who you’re gonna talk to or never know what you know, what one person is one paycheck away from being homeless.

And it’s scary, you know, out there. I mean, California’s not cheap to live. No. You know, like mostly you’re always going out and like rescuing people. I can see something on your Facebook page now that says, okay, my sober peeps. The last tip, you got a picture of this, uh, missing person, Brittany. It says the last tip.

She’s in Palm Springs, but known to be in San Bernardino also. Let’s see if we can help her mom and grandma get her home. And you described the LA what she [00:15:00] looks like. Who was last heard from on October 14th. So you go out and try to find her, right? We do. I’ve worked a lot with the Center for Lost and Exploited, missing Kids.

We’ve done a lot of personal stuff. We found, the last one we found was a 14 year old that was sex traffic to Venice Beach. And I tell a lot of parents, when you are looking for your son or daughter, it takes boots on the ground to go out there, talk to the street people, talk to the people that are in that circle.

Put out your flyers. If you just send at home and make phone calls and you put out on the internet, that’s cute and all, but you gotta be boots on the ground. You gotta go out there and get down and dirty. And a lot of people don’t wanna do that. So, I mean, I’ve done it, you know, out of 16 kids we found 14 so far.

Wow. But how do you, like, could somebody like me do it or is it not easier? But is it, are you able to more relate to them so that you’re able to find these people? I don’t know what it is. I mean, I just have a knack for it. And kids on the street know me, so they’ll talk to me. Uhhuh, they’re, it’s not like somebody coming from the outside and I’m a former drug addict.

I got drug addict and I got tattoos and I’m a big [00:16:00] guy, right? So, you know, I talk their language. So the street will give up the street, no problem. The problem is if they’re being trafficked by a pimp or something like that, that’s a little different situation. Takes a little bit more talent, a little bit more.

18, I would call it. You know, sometimes we do stuff that we shouldn’t be doing, but we do it anyways. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, when you gotta save somebody, I mean, it doesn’t matter to me, I mean full, but any parent do this. I mean, it’s not easy, it’s long hours and it’s a lot of legwork. But it can be done. And then it’s like, it’s a lot of luck too.

It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack. So I try to hit as many dark corners and dope hotels and the tent cities and find out where everybody’s at and see where I can talk to some people and relate to ’em, and then be like, Hey, this is who I’m looking for and this is what I’m looking for and why I’m looking for ’em.

I’m not looking to arrest ’em. I’m not looking to this. I’m just looking at ’em to give him some help and get ’em home to their family. Right. And then when they get home to their family, do they tend to stay or do they, I mean, like what you said earlier, and I’ve experienced with my son and with helping other parents [00:17:00] through something like this, they have to want it themselves.

You can’t make them. They do. They do. They definitely do. And that’s a hard journey. Sometimes it takes years before they’re gonna want it, and that’s okay because I can love him, but I gotta love him at a far. But usually when I do an intervention, I mean, most of the time when a family has me come out to do an intervention, that person’s ready to get help.

And if you cut off those healthy boundaries and you make it, or they don’t have a place to live in a car, Most kids are gonna choose to choose enter treatment instead of going down that road. Yep. It’s hard to do as a parent, but I interviewed my son on a podcast episode earlier, and he wasn’t a heroin addict, but he did all different kinds of drugs and stuff.

And then the one when he finally decided to get help, his blood alcohol was 0.39. I was living up in Washington, dc it was 0.39 and he had done cocaine and ecstasy, and so he went to the hospital, the detox, and I was scheduled to go to a class. For new, um, senior executives and I did not skip that class. I went to the class.

I [00:18:00] did not go down to the hospital and visit him. And he said that that was the best thing I’ve done. Cause Yeah. Cause sometimes you have to let them burn themselves out. Yeah. They’ll get to a point where they’re just so sick and tired. They’re ready. Yeah know. And I have a lot of kids that come in and been to 15, 16 treatment centers and the first thing I tell ’em is, if you’re not ready to do the work, you might as well turn around and go to somewhere else.

I’m not a run in the mill treatment center. I’m not gonna candy code it. I’m not gonna patch you on the butt and give you a movie and a handout and tell you’re a drug addict. That’s not what’s gonna go down here. We get into the emdr, we get into the brain mapping. We get into the core of what’s going on with you, because obviously we’re not using drugs just to feel good and party anymore.

We’re using it to cope. We’re using it to hide a feeling. We’re using it to hide something else that’s going on inside us. Right, and my son said when he went to rehab, the way they were describing addicts was they understood him and so he started to understand himself better and that helped him get better.

People have illusion or their personal opinion that’s a cure. I don’t think I’m ever [00:19:00] cured because it’s a daily journey I have to do every day. I have to remind myself where I came from, what I did in my past, and why I won’t do it today. Like I know with every fiber of my body, I won’t do it again, but I remind myself that daily.

Yeah, because my phone and I get complacent and I don’t hang out with sober people, and I hang out with people that are doing drugs. Eventually I’m gonna fall right back into it. There’s NAA saying that says if you hang out in a barbershop long enough, you’re gonna get a haircut. It’s true. That’s true. So I hang out with different types of people.

I hang out with winners today. Doesn’t mean that they’re losers, but I go out there and I be of service every day. I go out on the streets, I talk to these kids. Even if I don’t have it, they’re not ready. It’s okay. I tell ’em, look, when you’re ready, gimme a call. I’m not gonna turn you away. I’m gonna help you.

We’ve been doing a lot of stuff with be. Because I am a US Army vet, so I’ve been, I just, uh, talked to the Tyranny Center, so we’re taking in a lot of vets right now. We always have a scholarship bed for open for a vet, even if they’re not on TRICARE or whatever. We always wanna make sure that we help our, our servicemen and women, and I have a big heart for that.

And there’s a lot of homeless [00:20:00] vets out there that are on addiction. There are. How many beds do you guys have right now? We have 28 beds. And they’re full. You’re full? Well, I have, I’m two. Wonderful. We keep pretty good. I mean, we always have one or two, but we keep pretty good because people wanna come here.

We’ve been around the longest and we actually do what we do. We’re not just one of these rehabs where you can go and sit on the couch and watch TV all day. It ain’t gotta be like that. No, I know. And then there’s some rehabs that are given the kids drugs. Yeah, like it’s, I mean, in that half block, the task force is out here.

The FBIs out here, they’re not playing. They’re gonna bust all those people. And that’s cool. Cause that’s what I like to see. Cause if you’re giving somebody money to go to rehab or you’re getting ’em high, you might kill that person. No, no kidding. You know, I’ve helped in different cases and helped people get out of, I’ve had families call me where I’ve gone and got their kids out of bad places because the cops can only do so much.

So they need somebody from an outsider to be able to help, and I’ll go get ’em and take ’em outta there, get ’em back home. So for somebody listening that wants to use your services, you offer these [00:21:00] services in California only? No, I do it all over the country. I mean, everybody can reach me at (714) 733-0222.

My cell phone doesn’t turn off. Even if you’re just calling for advice or if you’re just calling to have somebody listen to you. Cause a lot of times as far we don’t have anybody that we can talk to, we don’t know. And a lot of the younger parents don’t have a clue that there people out there are. We’ve been there done.

So if you wanna call and talk if you need some help. I mean, I’ve flown all over the country. I’ve been to Alaska, to Arkansas, to Washington, to Colorado, to, I have a lot of people that want me to come out, or if you want me to come out and speak in front of your, your high school or anything like that, I do that also because you know what?

This is a disease. We can’t fight by ourselves. It takes every single one of us, every grandmother, every mother, every father. Every brother and sister, we have to do it together. No, I agree. And it’s not easy because a lot of us feel alone. A lot of us feel ashamed. A lot of, uh, professionals, I’ve dealt with them, a lot of professionals that have a lot of money, and they’re ashamed to say [00:22:00] that my kid’s an addict or you know, and they hide it and they sweep it under the rug.

Sweep under the rug. You’re gonna end up with a dead kid. Yeah, you are. You gotta pick the bull by the horns. I mean, I’ve been to so many funerals and so many parents I’ve talked to that lost their kids, which I hate seeing even clients of mine that are relapsed and died. I hate to see that because you know what it’s like, you know, if you took this serious, but I can’t make anybody serious and take it serious.

I can’t make you want recovery. The one thing my, my sponsor once told me is that I can’t give you the gift of recovery because I would rob you of the journey. Oh. It took me a while to understand what that meant, and then I thought about it for about a year and I said, you know what? Now I get it. Because you know, my journey is what made me who I am today, and there was a lot of pain and degradation and, and shame.

But I had to not hold myself hostage anymore. I had to realize that was the old man. I’m somebody different today and I make a difference today, and I’m not gonna be held by anybody to tell me. Well, look what you used to be because today, At 12 years cleaning, I make a difference. I do what I gotta do and I do what I say I got.

I’m gonna do. I don’t candy coat it. I don’t sugar [00:23:00] coat it. And when parents call me, I tell ’em, look, I’m gonna be raw and real with you, so you can’t handle that. Maybe you wanna call me back because you’re gonna hear some things you might not wanna hear. Because addiction is a family disease. Addiction affects all of us.

And as parents, we get involved with our kids a lot where we give up a lot of ourselves because of their addiction. We’re running to them every time they need something or. Oh, mom, I’m starving. Or, oh, mom, I’m cold. You know, when they’re sitting in the hotel room doing dope and all I was just trying to do is get money.

Right. You know, and it, it’s a hard, a hard boundary. I get a lot of people that we help with mental illness and I’ve been out in wittier the last time and I was helping a, a mom find a young girl. Stepped out there and she was pregnant and she was getting high and getting beaten up, but she didn’t want help.

So I mean, we sat up there, we got her some food, we got her some blankets. We talked to her forever. We took her to the hospital, her check, but she wanted to go back’s. What do, it’s the hardest part’s apparent leaving that I can get that. What’s what they wanted. I mean, okay, cool. But at least we were able to give them a little shiny glimmer.

Hope to [00:24:00] let them know that we’re here when they want the help. Right. And the parent, the parents, like, at least I could just see her alive. And at least I know she’s warm today and I, at least I know she’s got food in her belly. Right. And don’t give them money. Give them the coat. Give them, don’t give them, I don’t, I don’t give money anymore.

What I tell parents a lot of time is order a pizza for ’em. Yeah. Or you can order on ralphs.com. You can go online. And you can order some groceries and have ’em pick ’em up at anywhere else that’s local or whatever you have and be able to do it that way. That way they have some groceries and you know, they’re not spending the money on drugs or rooms or whatever.

If they want it, they’ll go get it. A lot of people hygiene’s a big one. So what I’ll do is I’ll order 10 or $15 worth of hygiene products. And tell ’em, Hey, you can go pick it up at this Ralph’s or CBS or wherever. They have some service for that. And that way they’re not spending it on what they wanna spend it on.

They’re getting what they need. Right. So you just got a post on your Facebook page too about the importance of just always learning and you’re always learning and you just posted a picture of a certificate that you’ve got for attending. Mending Broken Hearts [00:25:00] healing, unresolved grief facilitator training.

How are you going use screen? I went to the white bison, which is white bison.org uhhuh, and they’re an organization that works with all the tribal people. Intergenerational trauma. As you know, a lot of our tribal people have a lot of problems with addiction. Yes. And they don’t have a lot of resources for that.

And they feel secluded because they’re, they’ve been taught to. To not like the white man and not be, cause our ways are different. So it brought me into learning about a healing circle and dealing with people’s traditions and ceremonies and being able to adjust to their way of thinking that was more based on their tribal culture instead of just doing it one way.

Cuz 12 steps isn’t the cure for everybody, so maybe. By learning to be a facilitator. That way it was able to approach them on a level where they’re more comfortable with it to celebrate their heritage and celebrate the way they are brought into this, and being able to look at it in a different point of view from somebody else.

So it’s just like I went and took my peer-to-peer specialist class to the va, [00:26:00] you know, to help work with Beth. I’m always about learning because I’m not perfect and neither is somebody else. So what can I learn to make it better or what can I do different to help somebody else? Jeff, you’re you’re going around helping so many people.

Do you ever get burned out, and what do you do to take care of yourself? Self-care is a huge one, and I’m really bad at it. I try to be more self-care now, especially when my other peers in the industry tell me to take self-care because I don’t take a lot of time. I’m a workaholic and I’m really passionate about what I do, so I dive into it headfirst, but I have to learn to turn off my phone once in a while.

Spend some time with my kids, spend some time with my family, and do just go to the beach or go to the park or whatever. And I’m still learning that. That’s a hard one because I’m so driven to what I do, but I’m working on it. But in recovery, this is the number one burnout industry. You will burn yourself out super fast.

One, if you’re not passionate, and two, if you don’t, if you don’t have the the drive, because it is a draining industry. You deal with death and destruction every day. I tried to tell my girl at home, I [00:27:00] said, you know, I deal with fires every day, all day. So I’m like a fireman. I’m dealing with putting out fires all day long.

So when I get home, I like, just like a half hour to sit and be monitored myself, relax, decompress. It’s something to eat, take a shower, because I’m just so built up all day long with dealing with, you know, I’m dealing with 28 different clients’, personalities and problems. And as you know, fresh in recovery, we all got issues off the bat and, oh, my girlfriend’s gone, or my mom’s pissed, or I don’t have any money, you know?

And so you’re dealing with these every day, all day. Which takes a very special kind of person, and I think everybody that works in recovery is a box star because the work in this industry is not easy. No, definitely not. Do you ever feel like urge to use drugs? No. For me, I got to a point in my life where I knew if I do one, it’s over for me.

I’m going back to prison, I’m losing everything, and I work too hard to get what I get and what I got. And I’m not about to give it up for 10 minutes of feeling good because the next day I’ll feel like crap and I’ll, and i’ll, and then I’m right back in the circle and I’m not giving up. This time I [00:28:00] have for nobody.

I mean, it’s not worth it. I had an instance the other day or a young lady tried to uh, say that she smoked pot. So it was my fault. And I said, how is it my fault? You’re a grown woman cause you went and smoked five. You wanna blame somebody else? I’m like, how dumb does that sound? Yeah. I said, why don’t calculate this out?

Relay and realize. You made a bad decision, so you wanna blame it on everybody else. I didn’t buy the pot for you. I didn’t put it in your mouth, make you smoke it. So how is it my fault? Right? And everybody has a thing, you know, with pot. Pot, you know, and it’s. Well, sometimes pot’s really bad for somebody.

Sometimes pot’s not bad for somebody. I don’t go either way on it because I’m watching the medical trials on it, and I see that it works good in cbd, especially on some people. So, I mean, if that’s what you choose to do instead of putting a needle in your arm, then so be it. I’m gonna meet you where you’re at.

I’d much rather you smoke a joint than put a needle in your arm. It’s not that I would do it, but if that’s what you’re gonna do instead of putting a needle in your arm, then. Hey, you’re an adult. Do what you gotta do. At least you’re not out there robbing somebody and doing whatever. I adhere to [00:29:00] total abstinence.

I don’t even take pills because that’s what works for me. But that might not work for somebody else. It’s the same thing we have going on with everybody talking about Mac, which is maintenance. You know, everybody thinks, well if you take Suboxone, you’re not clean. And I’m like, Hey, if they’re taking a strip of Suboxone, it’s gonna put a needle in your on.

Isn’t that better? I don’t know if it is or not, but if it’s keeping them clean, then. So be it. Right? I like your toughness. I mean, there’s a post here on your Facebook page. First Rule of Jeff, life’s not fair. It’s what you make of it. You can’t just sit on the couch and expect to be rich. Right? And I’m far from rich, but I, I mean, I walked down to prison with $130 in my pocket.

I’ve built everything I have, which made me a very strong person. Cause I’m not about to let anybody take it away from me or myself to take it away from me. And, uh, it wasn’t easy. Even 12 years Clean Life’s still. Not easy. No. Like throwing curve balls all the time. So it’s like how do you deal with it?

The tools you learn and rehab is not a cure for everybody, but the tools you learn help you. Adjust and [00:30:00] surround you with sober people and introduce you to a different type of community than what you would normally be around. And if you’re willing to take that and go to meetings or church or to the gym or wherever you’re gonna meet these people and take that and run with it, that’s what you do with it.

That’s why recovery is about what you do, not about what everybody else does. And it’s learning to stop being a victim and blaming everybody else and saying, oh, well, it’s their fault I did this. It’s their fault I went and got drunk. No, it’s your fault. You chose to go drink. And I think alcohol is probably the worst one of all.

It’s, uh, it’s everywhere. If somebody gets passed, they’re like, oh, he is just drunk. But it’s killing more people a year than any other drug, and it’s causing more family problems than any other drug. And just because you’re a doctor or you’re a lawyer doesn’t mean you have a great house. When you go home and you’re, you drink of whiskey and you beat your wife up, right?

You know? Does that make you good guy? No, they don’t know that. So when people talk about sober homes, I’m like that sober home’s probably cleaner than the house next door to you. At least they’re testing them. They’re making sure they’re clean. Yeah, somebody messes up here and there, [00:31:00] but it’s probably cleaner than the next five houses down the road.

Jeff, I really appreciate everything you’re doing for so many people and thank you. I know that this interview is going to help a lot of people too. It’s helped me. I’ve learned a lot about what you said and when I was going through it with my son, and I’m sure I probably speak for your mom too when I say I just know.

It’s just such a good feeling to have your son back, and I bet your mom feels the same. And the sad part is a lot of people aren’t gonna make it back. So what we do as parents and as people in recovery, if we take that initiative and take that step to try to intervene, that’s what you gotta do. Don’t give up hope.

Don’t give up. On your kids or your family member or whatever, give them every option to get help and get clean. And then if they don’t, that’s on them. You did everything you could. Cause I know in my body, if my daughters relapsed, went back out, at least I did everything in my power to make it so they had an option instead of just giving up on them.

Don’t shut ’em, don’t push ’em away. Keep healthy boundaries, but keep ’em at an arm distance. But [00:32:00] show ’em. Let ’em know you do love them. I mean, my mom says she spent many years on her knees praying for me and it worked one day, you know, and it’s just her time. Yeah, definitely. Any last bits of parting wisdom for our listeners before we end the interview?

You know, I’d say reach out. Reach out, talk to somebody. Call me if you want. Call Emily. Call whoever. Just reach out and talk to somebody. It might not be the cure all for you. It might not be fixed, but at least you’ll be able to get it off your chest and not bottle it up. At least you might have the option of, of helping save somebody and, uh, no matter what it is, if it’s rehab, it’s Facebook faith based, or if it’s treatment or if it’s 12 step meetings, whatever, at least find something that works for you to be able to keep going.

And maybe if, if you’re not a parent or it’s not impacting you, it could be impacting a neighbor. Or a coworker. So just be more you. Reach out, talk to people, see what they’re going through, and see how you can help. If you listen to this episode and it’s not impacting you directly, but you know somebody at work, reach out to them.

We’re not alone. You’d be [00:33:00] amazed on how many middle school kids are trying drugs right now. I know. You know, and I’m talking between the age of 12 and 16 that are currently getting high on meth, heroin, coke, and uh, if we don’t change our generation now, we won’t have a future generation. Yep. So if you think it’s not happening to you or not happening in your neighborhood, open your eyes cuz it’s happening all over.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I think some of us, I know I did before I ran into issues with my son, had an opinion in my head as to, well, you know, I’m a good parent. It couldn’t happen to me. And um, it did. Well, if you think that, you know, and I always tell people like how many movies star kids are getting, you know, that are dying?

How many movie stars are dying? How many musicians are dying from overdose? How many professional athletes are dying? From an overdose. So you never know who it’s gonna affect. It can affect everybody from the president down to the, to the homeless person on the streets. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t care.

It’ll take you, it’ll take your family and it’ll take your [00:34:00] life. Yeah. I was, we’re looking at this post that you made on October 26th, because, uh, that was your 12 years clean day and you said, I remember before I tried meth and I asked people what it was like, and they said it’s like a burst of energy, a rush that takes your breath.

It’s the best feeling ever. I don’t know how to explain it really. And they were right. But now if anyone were to ever ask me what it’s like, I would tell them, it’s like spending every single penny you ever had on drugs. It’s like going days without eating, even though you were starving. But you need dope more.

It’s like having to lie to every family and friend you ever had. It’s like waking up, hating yourself from the shame and guilt, and you went on and on, and you’re right, but they don’t tell you that. They tell you just about that immediate feeling and what you’re describing, all the stuff after that. Well, for a lot of us that were, that didn’t turn into addicts later on, you can remember partying with D things and you know, colleagues or whatever, drinking, trying other cocaine and it didn’t affect you.

I don’t know why it affects some people differently and why some of them us are addicts and why some of us could just try it and not do it [00:35:00] again. But that euphoria and stuff and that feeling great kicks over some of us and it controls everything we do. Yeah. Well, and some people have that euphoria with exercise.

Some people are way addicted to exercises, so it, it doesn’t always have to be drugs, but you’re right. I see people do it with a religion. I see people do it with Jim. I see people do it with all kinds of things, and that’s okay. I mean, whatever way it works. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for being on the Onward podcast and sharing your wisdom and sharing your story, and congratulations on everything that you’ve accomplished in life, and thank you for helping so many people.

Well, thank you so much, Emily, for inviting me on the show, and I hope that each and every one of you that are out there listening and continue listening to our podcast, because she’s bringing about change, she’s bringing about people to, for you guys to hear their stories, to understand what they’ve gone through, and to understand that you’re not alone out there.

Yes. Thank you. Jeff is making a difference. He makes a difference every day. He goes out on the streets, he does outreach. [00:36:00] He knows what’s going on. He educates people. I’ll finish reading Jeff’s Facebook post that I mentioned earlier. He says, I will forever be an addict battling my inner demons every day for the rest of my life.

We have to stop pretending that addiction is something to be ashamed of. We have to talk about it. Addiction sucks for the addicts and their families. When we silence the problem and pretend like everything is okay, when it isn’t, the fire grows and disintegrates everything in its path. People are dying.

We have to talk about it and share our stories. Today. I know I survived hell and became a miracle. As I share this post, my eyes tear up knowing that another addict is taking their last breath because of this disease causing their families and loved ones to mourn. A child just lost their parents. A parent just lost their child.

A brother or a sister lost their sibling. A wife or husband lost their spouse. [00:37:00] Harsh reality is, They are gone forever. To anyone who is suffering to the grasp of addiction, please reach out. There is hope. There is a way out you are loved. After you listen to this episode, please share it on your Instagram story or your Facebook story or your Facebook page, especially during the holidays.

People really need to know that they are not alone. Take a look around your neighborhood, your community, your workspace, and open up your eyes and see if you can recognize or find that somebody is suffering, especially over this holiday season, and see what you can do to reach out and help. Maybe it’s just to be a shoulder for somebody to cry on or for somebody to talk to.

Thank you for listening today. Thank you for your support for the Onward Podcast, and I wish everybody a healthy and happy holiday season.[00:38:00]