Don’t F*cking Kill Yourself: A Memoir of Suicide, Survival, and Stories That Keep Us Alive

[00:00:00] it really is about , building a community toolbox of, of different tips and different insights. And because I think the reality is we, we need medical professional resources. Those are essential to be out there. But we also need, you know, more qualitative tips from just know normal people that struggle.

And so, you know, for me, kind of the three, the three things that I share Our first and foremost, share and share often be as be as open about your story and your struggle, you know, as your, as you can be. And the second one is connect with your people, passions and experiences, you know, from your life.

And then, and then the last one, you know, the title of the book don’t F and kill yourself is also a mantra. You know, it also can be used as a mantra

Welcome to onward. Live a live stream, [00:01:00] focused on encouraging you to create a life you love living. Now let’s go beyond success to significance in clear on our, why is crucial. It requires doing the inner work, finding ourselves, getting to know ourselves, embracing our inner child, shedding social conditioning, and letting go of perfect.

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Hi everybody. I was just kind of cracking up because. One of the last pictures and it’s at my grandson, Marshall he’s like five and you know how it is when a five-year-old doesn’t want to be in the picture. And he’s [00:02:00] like looking called of stress out. We’re trying to say smile. But that doesn’t always work with little kids.

So welcome everybody. Thank you for joining me tonight and my guest. I appreciate you guys for joining and I wanted to start this episode first with talking a little bit about Ukraine and it’s just very short. There there’s a website there where you can make a donation. So I got this email for restring restream the owner, the head of restream restream is this platform that I’m using right now.

To stream this show because you can’t stream directly. Can you just go live on LinkedIn? You need to have something that you can stream. So I got this email, it said my name’s Alex, and I’m the co-founder and CEO of restream. I’m also a father, a husband, and above all today, a proud Ukrainian. He sent this Friday, February 25th, as you likely already know yesterday, Russian forces conducted air strikes across Ukraine [00:03:00] and including his hometown where Andrew, a friend of his, and then he founded restream in 2015.

So in the last 24 hours, he said in this email, they’d received an outpouring of support from friends, colleagues, and many inquiring about the safety of their team and ways they can help. So basically they got everybody from their team out of Ukraine or is at least safe and they have a website which I’m sharing right here that you can go to.

And there’s a lot of organizations that are on the ground in Ukraine that you can donate to. So I just wanted to share that as we kick off 

. So tonight we’re talking about a tough topic, so. you get triggered by the conversation on suicide, I just wanted to let you know upfront that that’s what we’re talking about.

Mental health, suicide, and just wanted to let you know up front in case it might trigger you. So the topic tonight is don’t. I don’t have to say this. Jeff [00:04:00] don’t effing, kill yourself. A member memoir, suicides, survival, and stories that keep us alive. And my guest tonight is Jeff Romig . Hi, Jeff. Thank you for joining. Thank you for having me. Yeah. And you have the title, the title I use. Let’s just go with whatever. However, the host wants to. Well, I break my episode is clean, so I guess that’s how I I’ll say don’t kill yourself and then more suicides, survival and stories that keep us alive.

And can you tell us a little bit about yourself and why you wrote this book? Yeah, for sure. You know, the title isn’t just intended to be an eye catcher. It’s actually a story. About 10 years ago a friend asked me if I could only say one more thing to my dad, what would I say? And the title of my book was my answer.

And my dad died by suicide. On February 24th, 1996, I was 18, just turned [00:05:00] 18 a few weeks before. And so I’ve been. As suicide survivor from the loss of a loved one, you know, for 26 years now. But I also inherited the same mental health struggles that that, that he had and, or that I believe he had, he wasn’t diagnosed, he didn’t seek help.

But based on his final act and the insights we have from the letters he left us and, and my own struggles you know, I believe he struggled with the same things and, you know, that’s, for me, that’s, I’m diagnosed generalized anxiety and clinical depression. And then you know, I have my own suicidal ideation.

And so I decided to write the book for a couple of reasons, I think first and foremost To share my story as some, you know, as a kid who lost a parent to suicide to give insight to that, but then also, you know, insight to, what does it look like when you leave a kid behind and they grow up and then the other side [00:06:00] to give insight into, you know, what is it like to be?

You know, in my, from my standpoint, I can only tell my story you know, a young, a pretty high functioning, younger professional for most of my, my life today in the professional world. I’m 44. So so most of my time in the, in the workforce was kind of young professional. But how, you know, how I navigated, how I’ve navigated my own mind you know, it’s our LinkedIn profiles.

Don’t. Convey what, whatever we deal with from a mental health standpoint, from a trauma standpoint. And so it’s, you know, we, we want our, we want our work to jump out and to say something about us, but, you know, it’s also what’s in between the lines of the lines on our resume that, you know, make us who we are and, you know, navigating the pressure of, you know, of the young professional world.

And you know, as part of my story [00:07:00] and part of, you know, my thirties was a lot of, you know, trying to prove myself because I couldn’t prove myself to my dad and you know, it wasn’t healthy for me. And it played into, you know, played into a lot of you know, everything tracing back to not only his, his suicide, but, you know, but growing up too So I, I had the idea for the book a few years back but I definitely needed, I needed to live a little more life and got sober in 2017 and I, and I’m now over four years sober.

And you know, it really was the tools that I got that I found through, through AA based sobriety that, you know, positioned me to even be able to do this. Cause it’s not, it’s not just a writing project. It’s a really, you know, an emotional project. And so it took a lot and took a lot out of me. But I decided on father’s day in [00:08:00] 2020, as we were a few months into the pandemic I’m, I’m single divorced a few years ago in 2015 and, and live alone.

And you know, I, on father’s day, I was just, that was my 25th fatherless father’s day. And. I just thought, you know, as I’m in isolation, how do I keep myself healthy and, you know, and do a project that I’ve wanted to do. And I think also somebody on Sunday in the zoom call had said something like if you’re a writer and you don’t come out of quarantine with a book, what were you doing?

And so sort of all of those things together, and this is my first year, my first, my first book, but sort of all of those things together, you know, come as I was coming up on the 25th anniversary, it just really landed in my head that, you know, I have this story, I want to tell To help people who struggle with suicidal, suicidal ideation as a core reader, and then sort of the next, the [00:09:00] next group, you know, people who love those people and how to have some insight and have some tools and just, you know, started, started writing.

The way I purchased the book kind of plays with time. It’s not told in a linear fashion it’s one of the original ideas was I was very haunted by my dad, did the carbon monoxide in the car thing, and I was haunted by, you know, it takes based on my research, it takes about five minutes depending on the concentration of the carbon monoxide to lose consciousness.

And so I was always haunted by like, what was he thinking in those five minutes and why wasn’t it enough to, to change his mind. And then you combine combining that idea with the idea of. Our lives flash before our eyes, when we’re about to die. And, you know, and, and I thought about what did he see, but also what would I see?

And so, you know, basically the book is, is my memoir and is each chapter is based around a [00:10:00] date. And then, you know, there’s a story arc, but the dates are not in, not in chronological order, they jump around and, you know, and, and not all of them are, I mean, it’s a memoir, it’s not a self-help book. So all of them aren’t darkness, you know?

And what I found as I was writing, one of my first editors kept asking me a brilliant guy kept asking me, why are you telling me this specific story? And I, and I was so annoyed with the question at first, but then it really, that question helped me frame not only. The approach to the book, but, but the key tool from the book, which is these are the people, passions and experiences that have brought me joy.

And in my darkest moments, in my very darkest, almost close to suicide moment in 2017, it was remembering those things and the [00:11:00] possibilities that existed, that, that pulled me through that moment. And so, you know, these are the stories that I want to remember because they bring me joy or because they bring me perspective because they remind me of the people that love me and want me to stay here.

And so that’s what, you know, that’s what the, the book is, is, is a memoir of suicide survival and the stories that keep us alive. Let me ask, so, so congratulations, they’ll says, and I do too on your sobriety. That’s about as long as my son’s been sober too. And congratulations. Yeah. And thank you. And I’ve seen him, we’re all for him.

I say, thank you. I’ve seen him grow and heal through what he learned when he was, you know, getting sober. And so it sounds like this writing this book was healing for you as well. Absolutely. No question about it. I mean that, to the degree [00:12:00] that the ending of the book change because of my drove through the process.

And I think it’s, you know, one thing I discovered is I’d done a lot of grief work from a few angles, but I hadn’t really done trauma work and there are two different journeys and, you know, and, and so I felt like. You know, before I started the book, I felt like, you know, it’s been 25 years almost. I should be in a better place, but, but I hadn’t even done any of the work with the trauma.

I had done the work with the grief. And so this, you know, this book really helped me navigate the trauma and again, see, my dad is a guy that was struggling. I mean, I’m, you know, I turned 44 just a few weeks ago in February. I was 43 when I wrote the book. He was 47 when he died. And [00:13:00] so late, a little differently.

Now that you’re older. Right. You can see exactly the dad. He’s a person. He had thoughts too. He’s not an absolutely perfect person. Yeah. And I also think about. I was diagnosed in 2002. So I’ve had a diagnosis and, you know, therapy, most of that time meds, most of that time. And it’s still been a struggle. I can’t imagine he dealt with having none of that, you know?

And so, you know, there’s a different kind of perspective and a different kind of empathy, you know, and I think, you know, from a, from a sobriety standpoint and not seeing everything as being about me, you know, I think for so long, it was just all about me and I was the victim and, you know, but the more that I’ve learned about, you know, his, his life, you know, he might’ve been a victim to, and, and, [00:14:00] you know, and it just, he was trying to do his best.

He wasn’t trying to victimize anyone, you know He was just upside down in his head because the reality is the longer that suicidal ideation stays in your head, the more poisonous it gets. And so that’s why, and that’s why I have to, that’s why I’m encouraging people to share more and I’m sharing my story in depth.

And then I have the podcast suicide, survival stories to give opportunities for other folks to share their story. Yeah. Well, how does sharing the story help help you and keep you from, from suicide? Yes. Cause I’m cause I’m here. And I don’t say that in a global way, but you know, I think it is, it’s just like, you know, it’s like if your, your cup fills up and it’s going to overflow, if it keeps filling and that’s sort of how, how it is with suicidal ideation and you know, the more in [00:15:00] your head you are without.

Both hearing yourself out loud and potentially, you know, hearing another person reflect back to you about what you said, you know, you can just get upside down and you can think, you know, it’s like a, it’s like a pilot flying with instruments and the instruments are telling him one thing. And then he comes in for landing and he’s, he’s flying upside down because the instruments are off.

And, you know, when I read my dad suicide letter, cause he, you know, he talks about finances and that, that was his you know, that was what he said. And to him it was all very logical and this is how he could take care of his family. And he wasn’t correct. It wasn’t a good idea. But to him it was logical because he didn’t bounce it off anybody else.

And he didn’t even hear himself say it out loud. And I doubt until he sat down to write those letters. He ever put anything on paper? [00:16:00] Cause he wasn’t one, he was a lawyer, but he wasn’t wanting to journal or talk about his feelings or anything like that. I don’t, I don’t think those thoughts ever came out of his mind until he was literally hadn’t had decided what he was doing and was checking off his list of what he needed to do, you know, to, to leave.

You have any brothers or sisters? Yes. I have a younger brother. He’s about to turn 40. He was 13 or yeah, I guess he was 12 about to turn 13 and he was in eighth grade. I was a senior in high school and so yeah, he’s, he’s a literal rocket scientist. Now he does wind turbine work for general electric.

I got all the humanities history, political science writing. And he got, he got all the math and science. That’s funny. So, oh, there was a question that I had right at the top of my head which is like, so [00:17:00] when you get in that state where you’re just thinking of thinking about it, how do you get yourself out of it?

What are your steps? Yeah, I mean, I, my steps now are, I mean, I, I, I think if I’m being honest about my own suicidal ideation where I’ve come through, the process of writing the book is I have learned how not to die, but I’m still learning how to live, if that makes sense. And so I definitely find myself in these spaces when my depression is kind of winning where I feel worthless and hopeless, but I’m not suicidal.

And that doesn’t mean that. Think about suicide in general, there’s a difference between, and I think that’s something that people who have to set, audiation like, there’s a difference to having suicidal ideation and being suicidal. And I mean, the difference is [00:18:00] your, your former line, you know, you’re formalizing a plan.

I mean, when you’re suicidal, you’re, you know, you’re on your way to the act, as opposed to envisioning the act in a theoretical way taking action on it. Right. And so I have not been suicidal since I got sober. And so, you know, my program and then my commitment to sharing about my story, my mental health journey, my own suicidal ideation You know, keeps me from getting to that darkest place.

So it’s, you know, it’s the work to, to not get there. It’s the, you know, it’s the mowing, the lawn, weeding the garden, you know, the maintenance, the mental health maintenance keeps them, has kept me from getting to that point. You know, but that’s also different, you know, [00:19:00] different for everybody. And so that’s where, you know, I try to share what works for me and if it works, I, I’m not sharing it as a panacea or as a silver bullet.

I’m just sharing it as sharing this, you know, sort of the three things I talk about that you can add to your own toolbox and, you know, but it’s, they’re not, you know, everything and they work for me right now, but maybe in a year, I mean another tool that I didn’t plan this, but last week my guest was a mom whose, who lost her son 12 years ago to suicide March.

And then, and then I have you, and it wasn’t even planned. And then this week is, or within this past week was this week when the Stanford soccer player. And one of the things that I learned from last week’s interview is that suicides tend to happen the most [00:20:00] in the spring, which I didn’t know. I thought it would be like winter time, but it’s in this.

And she said that’s because, I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know exactly why, but she said, yeah, it’s like March, April, may, June. That timeframe is when most of them happened. So I thought that was kind of interesting. I just would’ve thought it would have been a winter. How do you, how do you handle it when you hear the news, you know, like the soccer player, how does that impact you?

I will answer that question from a pre-book and a post book standpoint. Pre-book I took those opportunities to share and to speak post book. I have not I don’t want it to ever seem like I’m trying to capitalize on those opportunities to sell a book because I’m absolutely not, I didn’t do this in any fashion to make any money and, you know So it’s not about that for me, but I [00:21:00] think it’s, so I think now my role is to share in between, you know, and when, when there’s a tragedy that involves suicide, it will be shared.

And people will, will share a little more. And I feel like my duty now is to share in between at moments when, you know, it’s just the forefront of people’s, right? Yeah, exactly. So that’s how I’ve dealt with that. Yeah. Okay. Mark says how good a society at recognizing the symptom before people get to the point?

Like I know one of the things I’ve heard last week is, you know, you can ask, are you thinking of committing suicide? That’s a question that we should ask, right? Yeah. And we want to say. And just, just to know, we want to say die by suicide rather than commit. Cause [00:22:00] commit, implies that you’re you’re in the midst of a crime, which obviously murder suicides are.

But suicide isn’t a crime. And so we don’t want to criminalize people who died by suicide. So we’ve, we’ve in the, in the community. We’ve tried to move more toward die by suicide. So not, not to be, you know, just, just to bring that up. Yeah. But I mean, that happened to me would be like an awkward question to ask somebody, are you thinking about dying by suicide?

Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, I think the answer to the question, the one word answer is terrible. Society does a terrible job, but I think, but it’s such a mix of things. And, and again, and it takes. It’s a tool box. It’s not, it’s not a silver bullet. I mean, even when people are like, you know, reach, reach out to your people, if you’re struggling, you know, that’s really hard when [00:23:00] you’re, when you’re paralyzed by depression, it’s really hard to reach out.

But on the other end of that, like when it comes down to it, if you’re about, if you’re planning and in the act of taking your own life, you are more than likely alone and have to, and if you’re going to get through it, it’s, it’s your own wherewithal at that point. So it’s like when, when people say, you know, if you’re struggling reach out, I mean, it sort of goes both ways.

It’s like, you know, it’s incumbent upon me when I’m struggling to try to push myself to reach out. But it’s also incumbent upon people who care about me, who know that I struggled. To not get disconnected because you know, my depression backs me into a corner where it’s safer for me to isolate. And so sometimes I need to find the strength to reach out and, and other times [00:24:00] having people reach out to me reminds me that, you know, people care about me and it’s easy when you’re isolating to, to tell yourself that they don’t.

So it sorta goes, those are both tools, right? Like it’s not, it’s a yes. And like, I need to reach out and people who know, I struggle if they haven’t heard from me in awhile or they, or I post something on social that they’re concerned about, like, you know, they should reach out. So it’s, it’s a yes. And it’s not one or the other.

That’s a really good point because, I mean, I’ll just say, you know, you, you started off with saying. A lot of times their social media posts don’t reveal everything. I’ve been connected to some people on LinkedIn that are really sharing some, some deep experiences. I haven’t shared as many, but I will share that I do get depressed and I, and I tend to get depressed when I like leave my com when not leave my car, when I go on a trip.

So it was on a trip and I was [00:25:00] around a lot of people. I had to speak in an event and I came home and I just, when it’s, when I get out of my routine and that weekend, I slept just about the whole weekend. This was just a few weeks ago. And it felt like two hands were on my shoulders, keeping me down. I went out cause I had to take my dog out to pee.

Cause it had to do that. But reaching out for help. When you feel like that or to just talk to somebody, you feel like talking to anybody? Yeah. So, like you said, when they say reach out for help, when you’re feeling like that, it’s very hard to reach out for help. And what somebody’s gonna say, I’ll kind of snap out of it.

Come on. Let’s, let’s go do something. If you haven’t felt like that depression have that weight on your shoulders. And I haven’t felt this, you know, thinking about suicide, I haven’t been there, but if you haven’t been there, it’s really hard to understand. Yeah. And, and that brings to the next piece of like, why don’t people reach out [00:26:00] because they’re not necessarily, they don’t necessarily feel capable of what they might have dealing with what they might hear, you know?

And I think that’s the other thing when we reach out you know, we have to make sure that. We’re very intentional about not making it about us as the one that’s reaching out. Does I say that from the perspective of, of the friend, not, you know, if I reach out to somebody and they’re struggling, I need to make sure that I don’t make it about me and that I let them let them navigate it.

And only all I can do is remind them that I care and that I’m there. And if they don’t want to talk any more than that, I can’t do anything. You know? I had that exact situation with, with a friend this past weekend who’s struggling and you know, he knows that I struggle. And we were together and I, I said, you know, cause he’s [00:27:00] took a leave and is to, to, to tackle what he’s struggling with.

And I said, you know, I’m always here to talk, whatever you need. Yeah. You know, he’s not ready to be in that place. And so, but I hope he knows now that like, you know, maybe he’ll remember that more and maybe he’ll he’ll text me or whatever. But I hope that I reinforced him that I care, you know, and that that’s, you know, that he’s he’s, you know, not alone.

Because again, we can’t, and I think, again, this is another sobriety thing. Like we don’t try to get other people sober. If people want to get sober, they have to want to get sober. And no matter what we want, what we think we should do, it’s not, you know, it’s not going to work until, until someone is coming on their own merits and it’s, it’s similar.

’cause I, I learned that with my son, cause I tried to do everything to help him and it wasn’t until he decided. [00:28:00] Yeah. And it’s, and it’s similar and, and the more that we can. As friends or family, the more that we can approach mental health with that, you know, we’re not trying to fix you or save you. We just love you and care about you and, and are here for whatever you need.

And when, when you need it, you know, we’re here and that’s. So I try to approach that the same way I try to approach sobriety resources, you know, if a friend calls and says, you know, I I’m, cause I’m, I’m very open about my story and my sobriety. And so I’ve had friends reached out to me. They’ve said, I don’t know if I’m, I don’t know that I want to go to AA and I don’t know that I’m an alcoholic, but I feel like I’m drinking too much.

And you know, I basically say I’m here to talk. If you want resources, I can share them. You know, because again, it’s not my, it’s not my decision to decide if something. Is, or isn’t an alcoholic. I mean, that’s there. That [00:29:00] is only them. That is as an alcoholic. Nobody can tell me I am or that I’m not. You know, and, but I had, I had to decide that I was going that I didn’t want to keep on that path and, and make that change.

And and I know that the resources are there for me. It’s, it’s harder with, I think it’s harder to a degree with depression because it’s it’s hidden in, in a lot of ways. And you, you know, but I think the best way to be empathetic is to make sure that you’re not making it about you and make sure that you’re just, you know, doing what you can and letting them know that you care.

Great tips. James said that it took getting SCIO poisoning for him to wake and see life. Thanks for sharing that, James. And we have a couple other comments here. Let’s see, Mark Lee says sometime friends who are in hard times want you to talk to them and [00:30:00] encourage them to live. Absolutely. And I think you have to follow their energy, right?

Like if they’re in a, you know, and so if it’s, they’re going to give you the openings to proceed. And so you just kind of have to take it step by step and, you know, listen to your intuition about how you feel in that moment, because, but even the act of engaging them shows them that you want them to be on.

Yeah. And mark says that disconnection is something we have to work on. It’s easy to separate yourself from your friends and allies. And then he has a question for you has media sometimes over romanticize depression. One of the biggest holiday specials is it’s a wonderful life and that’s really about suicide.

Ah, that’s a good question. I don’t know that I have a good answer to it. I think whether, I think the reality is is there’s two, there’s two [00:31:00] very distinct type of depression. There’s depression, that’s acute and situational. And then there’s depression, that’s clinical and chronic. And so I think. I don’t think whatever the media does or doesn’t do as a former journalist, as a member of the media and a past member of the media.

I don’t think what they do or don’t do has any effect on chronic depression. But yeah, it certainly, it certainly could have an effect on situational depression. Absolutely. You know, for sure. And Andrew says, I hear you. I was there too. I hope it’s okay that I share this as it might help someone to, I created a video on how to overcome negative thinking depression or suicidal thoughts, and it includes the seven reasons not to kill yourself to and it’s hard for me.

I’d have to unhide this to show the whole, it’s hard for me to see the whole message here, but he’s got it in the comments. Yeah. Here it is. Includes the seven reasons not to kill yourself. Two it’ll show you the way the first step and [00:32:00] others that, that helped him get out of the trap. So, anyway, that’s great.

And thank you, Andrew. And I, and again, I think it’s, it really is about building, you know, building a community toolbox of, of different tips and different insights. And because I think the reality is we, we need medical professional resources. Those are essential to be out there. But we also need, you know, more qualitative tips from just know normal people that struggle.

And so, you know, for me, kind of the three, the three things that I share Our first and foremost, share and share often be as be as open about your story and your struggle, you know, as your, as you can be. And the second one is connect with your people, passions and experiences, you know, from your life.

And then, and then the last one, you know, the title of the book don’t F and kill [00:33:00] yourself is also a mantra. You know, it also can be used as a mantra of, you know, I’ve been trying, I’ve tried the first two things, and if I’m, if I’ve done those and I’m still spinning, you know, It’s a mantra to say again, it’s, you know, it’s not a panacea, but I think it’s, you know, I hope that it can go in a community toolbox with other things that that might connect.

Mark says Andrew, Emily would like to share your story. I did. I interviewed Andrew already. And but we didn’t talk about about what he just posted and his episodes out. And I am going to be posting about it tomorrow. I hadn’t told you yet Andrew, that your episode came out as a regular podcast, but so, you know, when you, when you scheduled this interview, my podcast theme was facing adversity moving forward and discovering ourselves along the way.

And you could probably see that I’ve changed the theme a little bit to create [00:34:00] a life you love living. So how, what would you, how do you live? How do you. Live so that you love your life, or can you do you? I can I’m, you know, I’m learning, I think, you know, the book was such a journey and, you know, I wrote it in about five months and it was a lot of emotional work.

You know, the, the rest of the time before it came out with editing and design and all that stuff. But I think I’m still learning and even it came out in November and I also needed to kind of catch my breath from that. And you know, it’s, I, I’m a nonprofit fundraiser and I used to be a political consultant and I left my path, my most recent nonprofit fundraising job to go to a startup political firm and do some strategic communications last fall.

And it just didn’t, it wasn’t a fit. And, you know, I think part of, of getting healthier. Yeah, through sobriety and [00:35:00] through the process of the book allowed me to say, like, it’s not a fit, I’m gonna, you know, I’m going to move on. And and so the last few months, for the first time in trivial, a very privileged professional life where I’ve moved seamlessly for 20 years, 20 plus years from opportunity to opportunity.

You know, I was doing a full job search and not, not employed. And that was, you know, I have made work so much a part of my life. My sponsor tells me and has told me for three years, like you make work your higher power. You let your life revolve around work. And you put so much of your self worth into that.

You know, as I was going through this job search, she said, You know, maybe, maybe this is your higher power giving you some space to, to live a life without, without that work so that you can be better at those boundaries when you, when you find your next spot. And interviewing really started ramping up in January [00:36:00] and connected with a nonprofit here in Atlanta that is fantastic and got hired as their director of individual giving and started with them this Monday.

And so, you know, now that I’m kind of back in my happy fundraising place with a nonprofit whose mission I believe in and connects to work I’ve done in the past. You know, I’m, I’m starting that path to build, you know, the life that I envisioned. This is the first time I’ve really started. Don profit job with the tools that I’ve, I’ve built in sobriety and through building the book over the last four years.

And you know, I’m excited to bring that to, you know, to my work and, you know, but also create some more boundaries and in, in separating work and non-work life and, you know, and not putting all of my self-worth into, into the professional side of things. And so I think there’s, that’s how I’ve, I don’t think I’m living the [00:37:00] life that I want to live yet, but I think I’m starting.

And I think I have the tools to do that. Whereas four years ago, I absolutely It’s great awareness though. So many people sticking to a job that they don’t really love, that doesn’t give them energy. And that’s awesome that you were able to re recognize that and say, you know, it’s not a fit and not, not that, that means that you’re a failure or you’re, you know, whatever, you’re, that’s a success to recognize it’s not a fit and go and find something that really is.

Congratulations. Thank you. And I, yeah, I just, you know, I had past success in politics and I, I thought I want it to look at that again. And I missed fundraising so much that it shows me, you know, fundraising is a way for me to really use my skillset of storytelling and strategy and engagement and you know, and I just miss that.

And so it’s like, I was able to recognize. There’s nothing wrong with this firm. There’s nothing wrong with the vision. Here are the [00:38:00] people here, the work here. It’s just not what I want to do. And you know, I didn’t sit there for six months you know, beating myself up or projecting onto other people or making it all about me and, and creating drama and all that.

You know, I just made, I made a call and and now I’m in the right place. So I’m excited. Yeah. And bill says there are a lot of great people here to connect with and that’s for sure. So if you, when you, when we’re done with this, I highly recommend you go through the comments and connect people and connect with people that they know.

You know, there’s lots of people here that really talk about radiating real is the hashtag that Nancy started and it’s, you know, sharing. The not so great things that we’re experiencing and that we’re feeling and that we’re going through and supporting each other through that. So I highly recommend, and anyone who’s listening to this as a podcast, when it’s published later, connect with me on LinkedIn connect with Jeff on LinkedIn and [00:39:00] let’s connect, let’s help each other out and check in on each other and support each other.

Absolutely. And I think it’s, it’s also a dramatic of how LinkedIn has changed over the past five years or so. Where, you know, I think, I think five years ago it was pretty buttoned up and I see way more people sharing their whole selves here. You know, and, and I think through the pandemic, especially.

With, I mean, I think parents are the MVPs of the pandemic. I, I can’t imagine having to, you know, keep all the professional balls in the air and do homeschooling and all of that, but I also, but I do think it has shown everybody that disconnecting our, our work from, you know, having these sort of two silos isn’t feasible.

And I think from that lens on LinkedIn, I’ve definitely seen [00:40:00] more high performing executive types and the folks that are striving to be those, get those jobs, being vulnerable and being authentic and sharing you know, sharing more about themselves than just, just the business side. And I think that’s great.

I wouldn’t live one day cause it was back in, I think it was October, my pottery teacher died. Unexpectedly and I went live there, it’s on YouTube. You can find it. And I’m just like balling. And I shared it on LinkedIn. I’m on the social media, because what I was so frustrated about is that I have pictures of pottery and stuff, but I didn’t really get to know him really deeply.

And I don’t have any picture of me and Phil or even a picture of bill. And it just helped me awaken me to, you know, even how I want to even more enjoy [00:41:00] relationships with people. And that’s one of the reasons that I retired from working for the Navy at my minimum retirement age is because I was missing.

I was feeling like I was so busy. I was missing these deep conversations or just getting to know people more than just saying hi, And I feel, I felt like I didn’t do that well enough with Phil, but he was just such an amazing person. And so yeah, I mean, I’m not embarrassed that I was crying and th that’s life.

Right. We totally, and that is important. Yeah. So thanks bill for joining. And he looks forward to connecting with you and there you go. You got, you got a new friend, so yeah, anybody who’s watching feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m happy to happy to make new, new virtual friends. Yeah. It’s awesome.

And you live in Atlanta? I do. Yeah. So what have we, I’m looking at my notes here. [00:42:00] What about your mom? I haven’t heard, you mentioned. Oh, my mom’s great. I mean, she’s the rock of our family. It’s, it’s funny. I, I don’t have a book right here with me, but the way that the cover of the book is a picture of my family from when I think I’m probably like seven or so.

But it, it continues onto the spine and my mom is like on the spine. Yeah. And I didn’t, you know, when we were doing the art and stuff, we were really just looking at the front. And so until I got the book in my hand, I really didn’t see the spine. And you know, when I, when I gave her the hard copy, I told her, like, you know, this is, I think it’s appropriate that you’re on the spine because, you know, you’re, you held everything together and, you know, and she did.

And I, you know, I was on my way to college. We had literally gone to visit the [00:43:00] university of Alabama, where I spent my first two years before coming back to Columbia and going to the university of South Carolina. We visited Alabama the weekend before my dad died. And, you know, I was pretty, pretty set to go there, but cause that’s what I wanted to do.

And I, I was ready to leave Columbia, but also because that’s the last thing that he knew I wanted and I felt like I needed to follow through with that. So, you know, six months after he died, I was in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And you know, my mom and my brother were for, for two years in Columbia. I mean, we had our, our extended family of course, but you know, she really.

How old our family are, you know, core family together and help put me through college. And you know, all of, all of, all of that. So, you know, your mom, I, I don’t, I don’t have a exact same circumstance, but I am. I’m the only parent surviving of my two children. Their dad died in 2019. [00:44:00] And there is a certain kind of, I don’t know, pressure.

You feel to be able to stay around, I want to stay healthy. And you’re the only parent that your kids have. And it’s a, it’s a lot, it’s a big responsibility. So congratulations to your mom for pulling through. Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, and I think that’s where, you know, I know that I wasn’t, you know, I was a kid and I, I, I was appreciative, but not, you know, I didn’t understand at the time, you know, cause she was dealing with her own grief and her own trauma and then.

Being strong for us and making sure that we had what we needed you know, with, with Brian and high school and me in college and and making sure, you know, getting him to college, obviously he was, he’s a rocket scientist. He’s super smart, but just making sure he, you know, he had the resources to make the college choices that he wanted to make and you know, and without loans and things like that.

And so yeah, she’s, she’s always been great. [00:45:00] She’s she got remarried in 2007 and she and her husband live in Columbia and South Carolina. And it’s, it’s been great to see them more in the past year, you know, as opposed to 2020, or I think I only saw them once and it was like for 30 minutes sitting.

10 feet away from each other. And you know, and then obviously we didn’t do Thanksgiving or Christmas and it was hard. It was a hard year, obviously for everybody, but it was, everyone was nicer. Yeah. 21, I was nicer to be able to be together. I bet. So Mark Lee says, he’s looking forward to connecting with you.

He’s just up the road in North Carolina and he has and and then Charlene has to go, thank you for watching Charlene. So let me ask you a question like you COVID happened kind of you were writing the book, which is traumatic during COVID you’re secluded, during COVID [00:46:00] you’re recently sober. How did you, how did you handle it?

I mean, honestly, I think the book, the book is what, you know, the project from multiple angles really helped me. Navigate, you know, the pandemic, especially the hardest part, which was 2020. You know, for me, for me personally you know, when I, when I decided to write the book, I, I made three goals for myself.

The first one was con you know, write the whole book, complete the project. You know, this wasn’t a situation where I was like, I wanted to, you know, write a proposal and pitch it to publishers and, you know, I wanted to do it and I wanted to do it. So it would come out in 21 for the 25th anniversary. And I wanted to have some control over the content.

And so I just sat up, set out to do [00:47:00] it. And, you know, before I even looked into publishing Yeah, I had a first draft. And so my first goal was write the book, complete the project. At least the first draft before I even dip my toe in the publishing part. And then the second goal was to get it published.

And I found a great company called scribe media, which publishes a lot of non-fiction. And you know, work, worked with them to publish the book last fall. And then my third goal was just to help as many people as I could and you know, myself and at least one other person was, was my, my very, very low bar goal.

You know, and I know that that’s happened. So now it’s really just about continuing to share my story and, and put the book out there as a resource and, you know, and hopefully it’ll help, it’ll help more people. And so those are the goals that I.

Yeah, by being on the podcast, having your own podcast or another podcast, scribe media is pretty good at getting you guys on podcasts [00:48:00] too. Cause I think I’m pretty sure. Probably have they reached out to me all the time. Hey Emily, you gotta meet this person. You gotta meet that person. So they see, yeah.

There, my team was scribed was awesome from start to finish. So couldn’t recommend them more highly if you’re, if you’re looking to do something in the non-fiction space. But yeah, I mean, just to answer your, to go back to your original question of, you know, setting those goals, I mean really took me from father’s day of 2020 through November 2nd, 2021, when the book was published and became an Amazon bestseller on the first day in multiple categories.

And It was the same day the Braves won the world series, which was awesome.

Couldn’t have anticipated that at all, but, but you know, it really took me, it was my [00:49:00] pandemic and it got all of my energy in, in the pandemic. And, and was great. Like, I don’t really know what I mean, it was meant to happen that way. I just don’t know what I would have done because yeah, those first few months were, were a struggle, especially raising money for a nonprofit and feeling like, you know, every day your work was making sure that, that your, your teammates didn’t get pay cuts or laid off.

I mean, the, you know, those first three months were incredibly stressful and, you know, once we got to a good place fundraising wise going into June, you know, have a little more energy to think about other things. And then. You know, again, I just had that epiphany on father’s day that like, I need to go back to this idea of, you know, what would I see if my life flashed before my eyes and really start to build it out.

And you know, I made this, I, I love dates and I love time. And my book early plays with time from that perspective, but I just made this big Excel sheet of [00:50:00] like 150 of your says things for my life. That could be a chapter. And then I narrowed it down to, you know, about 120 that I was able to figure out the actual dates because the dates themselves are the chapter headings.

It’s not like chapter one, chapter two, it’s the actual date. And then I narrowed that down to, you know, to what’s in the book and what I ended up writing and you know, and it was a great way to do it. Cause it, it wasn’t linear. It gave me the opportunity to. You know, if after work, I wanted to write about this thing, then I’d just dug into that.

Or, you know, I left some of the harder stuff till he hinge and which I’ve finished my first draft Thanksgiving of 2020. And you know, but it was a really approachable way to come to it where, you know, each chapter is kind of a standalone short story and it’s organized in a way that has the story arc for sure.

And reiterate, you know, the points I’m trying to make. But you know, I was able to tighten all that up, you know, [00:51:00] to make sure it connected well in the right order for things to be in. But when I was writing it, I wasn’t thinking about the order. I was just thinking about telling the story inside of that chapter.

You know, and it was just week by week. I did a little and you know, did a little more as I got into the fall. And cause the original idea was like, I wanted it to be. By my inner badass anniversary in February which I know now knowing how, what it takes to actually publish a physical book. That, that was, that was silly, but it, it got me that tight timeline made me just focus so hard on that.

And then, and then when I found scribe at the beginning of 2021 I did a crowdfunding campaign. The first time I’ve really used my fundraising skills, you know, for myself but did a crowdfunding campaign to help, help fund the book. And you know, that was sort of the first part of, of the year. And then between the end of February and mid April was the, [00:52:00] you know, the, the second drafting and sort of walking that in and, and then going into the publishing process.

And so it was a great experience and it, you know, it sort of was. It was my pandemic. So what’s next for you then? Cause it’s like, it’s probably like this big thing. And then, and then now you’re on shows and everything, but like, what’s next? It seems like a big goal. Like that is something that helps you keep moving forward.

Yeah, I think the next, I mean, I, like I said, I’m thrilled about my new job. I’m ready to dig in there. And you know, but I think the, the podcast is suicide. Survival stories. Podcasts will be more of a focus. I mean, I will do some books, specific things. But you know, it’s hard. It’s hard to sit here and say, I wrote a memoir, but I D I don’t want it to be about me, but I kind of, don’t like, I’m a more, I’m more of a behind the scenes person.

And so I [00:53:00] created the podcast too. Be in conjunction with the books so that we can tell other people’s stories. Instead of, I think most of my effort moving forward, we’ll go into the podcast and figuring out how to you know, how to make time for that in addition to my new job and, and, and grow that.

And you know, but just to continue to speak up about suicidal ideation specifically, cause I think that over the past 20 years for, you know, in wonderful ways, the conversation about mental health in general and anxiety and depression is a much more visible, accessible conversation. But even still until I really, until I was a couple months into writing this book, I I’d been sharing about my anxiety and depression and those struggles on social media and being transparent and authentic about that for decade.

But until a couple months into writing this book, I had never said suicidal ideation connected to [00:54:00] myself publicly. I obviously knew that I needed to, to, because of what I was doing. But that’s really, my, my focus is, is changing the stigma around suicidal ideation, because if we don’t again, it just goes back to that idea of, if we don’t talk about suicidal ideation, it’s just going to be poisoned.

And so, you know, it is even if it might be awkward for the person we’re talking to, if it’s staying in our head, it is far more poisonous. You know, if I’m telling you that I’m struggling with suicidal ideation that is far healthier for the person struggling than, than not telling you, you know? And so that’s where, but I think that’s where society has to move.

Right? Because I think there are. There are fears and legitimate fears about the receiver of that [00:55:00] information overreacting. And, and so there’s a balance there, right? Because I feel like I I’ve been visible enough to this point to where I don’t think anybody’s going to overreact. If I say I’m struggling, whether I say it publicly or one-to-one you know, but some people may really overreact and, you know, and take them to the emergency room or whatever.

And, and obviously there are different situations, right? Nothing, nothing is mom with it. So

this is the spectrum of situations, right? There’s some situations where. It’s D danger as a parent, right? If danger is apparent then yeah, of course. But if I’m sitting down with you on a couch and just saying, here’s how I’m feeling, you know, I don’t know what to do with this. I really wanted to talk about [00:56:00] it.

Like scooping me up and taking me to the hospital is, is an overreaction. Right. But if it’s, you know, if I, if the, if the person speaking is not well visibly, if they’re manic, if they’re, you know, threatening. Yes. I mean, I think it’s, you know, I think it’s, you know, you know, when you see it, I think it comes back to that.

Like not making it about you, right. If you can see because of their words or tones or action that they are in danger, then. Yes, right. Help them. But don’t project danger onto them because what they’re saying is scaring. You got it. Got it. That’s a great way to end it. Cause we’re, I’m sorry, but we’re, we’re kind of, let’s talk about, [00:57:00] let’s see.

This is how people can follow your book on Instagram and Twitter at D F K Y book. Right. And then you also have this one, which is share with suicide survival stories, right? That’s for Instagram and Twitter. And then is this, this is where they can listen to your podcast too. And there’s some resources there.

Yeah. The website. Yeah. If you go to suicide, survival stories, dot org, it gives you the option to, if you want to buy the book, go to Amazon or or if you don’t do Amazon we’re in the IngramSpark catalog. So you could, you could go to your local, independent bookstore with. Which I recommend and support and just ask them and they can order the book for you.

It’s not going to be on the shelves because a lot of people have to request it before they put, you know, put it on the shelf. They can, you know, it’s in the catalog that they use to order from, and they can order it for you, but you can also buy it on Amazon or Barnes and noble different places. But [00:58:00] if you go to suicides, survival stories, dot org, you get that option of going into the full website or go into buy the book.

And so on the website, it’s pretty simple, you know, there’s, there’s a section on the book with some selections and there’s a section for the podcast and then there’s a section which you’re you have here for prevention resources. And so you know, and if there are resources that we can add you know, please.

Email us that [email protected]. And we’re trying, we’re working right now to do a, do a big update to the resources page. So thank you very much for sharing your story and for writing this book, because definitely I know it’s going to help people, and I know that it, it takes courage to come forward with your story.

And I just appreciate everything that you’re doing. I hope that you’re proud of yourself cause you should be. I’m trying to be, I, you know, [00:59:00] I take cues from other people, so thank you for saying that and you know, and thank you for having me. It’s been great to talk to you and share. And I’m looking forward to connection with folks or LinkedIn here have taken the time to listen.

Yeah. You made a lot of new friends tonight, so hopefully you can set up some networking calls with them and just get to know this community. There’s a lot of people that are very supportive that watch my show and other shows as well. 

Thank you so much. Thank you. . Onward live is sponsored by Emily Harmon, coaching and consulting.

Visit my website, Emily harman.com to learn more about me and my coaching programs. I’d love to help you create a life you love living. Remember every adversity is our own personal university. Sometimes the lessons are difficult and we must learn from our experiences. Vulnerability is your super power.

You are lovable [01:00:00] and worthy, and we discuss these topics and more because professional is personal. Thank you for joining us and engaging with me and my guests. I look.