Quitters Never Win and Winners Never Quit

[00:00:00] Carl welcome to the Onward Podcast. Thank you for having me, Emily. It’s a pleasure to be here.  I’m excited. I love your background, uh, with your book title in there and everything, and we’re gonna be talking about that. So you’re a leadership innovation strategist, and you help leaders and organizations go from being mediocre, um, to maximizing their potential.

I’d love to learn a little bit more about you and how you do that. And your also Naval Academy graduate class of 76, you served in the Marine Corps for five and a half years as a pilot. And then you started working in several different roles in, uh, manufacturing with lots of different companies. So, uh, tell us a little bit more about yourself as we get into the convers.

Okay, great. Great. I always start with the, uh, the ground, the beginning. I was blessed to have two, uh, supportive parents. Uh, my mother was an encourager. I never heard her say a bad word [00:01:00] about anybody and she was kind of the. Community listener, consultant unofficially. And then my dad’s world war II Marine, uh, great work ethic.

He had a couple of different jobs at the same time, very disciplined. So from those two individuals, that was kind of the foundation of, of me and my leadership and things like that. I grew up and, uh, wanted to be a professional baseball player or football player. And I can remember having a conversation in the fifth.

Uh, with some of my friends, uh, debating about whether or not I had to go to college in order to do that. so we called then the, the only male teacher in the whole elementary school, Mr. Downing, and asked him that question and he says, yes, you probably need to go to college if you’re gonna play sports. So we said, okay.

So that was a first inclination that I even thought about going to college. Um, my, my dad moved me from. Washington DC, where everybody looked like me to Spotsylvania Virginia during the same time period as the movie, remember the Titans. [00:02:00] Mm. My experiences were very similar. Uh, so I go into an environment that not only was different, but those individuals there did not want me to be there, but I learned a lot of value will lessen through that adversity.

I learned that everybody wants the same thing. No matter what color you are, no matter what your nationality is, no matter what your economic status is, everybody wants the same thing. They wanna be loved. They wanna be respected and they wanna be successful. So, uh, I learned that at a very young age, uh, went out for football in the ninth grade, never played tackle football before my coach gave a talk.

I’ll never forget, which is the title of this talk that we’re doing. Right. And, uh, he gives us our pads and he says, uh, you got your pants today. If you don’t wanna play, turn them in no harm, no foul to come back tomorrow. I need you to stay till the end of the season. Because quitters never win and winners never quit.

He said, if you quit my football team, you might quit school, quit school, getting married, quit your spouse, have kids quit your kids. Cause once you quit the first time, it’s easier to quit the next time. So I [00:03:00] developed a mindset that I would never quit struggled through that first year, fast forward my senior year on the most valuable player of the team.

And, uh, Probably right after the football season, myself and two other guys on the team get called to the office. We don’t know why we’re getting called to the office. And, um, in walks this guy six foot, two blue suit, white shirt, blue town, white cover says I’m from the Naval academy. And I wanna recruit you to play football.

I didn’t know what the Naval Academy was. And it was only 90 miles up the road, primarily because there weren’t a whole lot of people that looked like me going to the Naval academy. Right. Uh, graduated from high school in 1971. Vietnam war was still going. So my classmates walked out. They wouldn’t even listen.

They said, I’m not going to Vietnam. I listened because my dad always told me, never turned down an opportunity that you haven’t been offered. So I listened, went home and talked it over with my dad. He said, it’s a pretty good opportunity, Carl. Uh, so I said, okay, I’m going for it. I applied did not get in initially because [00:04:00] I wasn’t academically competitive. My GPA score and my SAT scores were not competitive. So the Naval Ccademy Foundation sent me to a prep school in Texas, the Southern tip of Texas called Marine Military Ccademy. Uh, I learned to study for the first time reapplied got accepted, entered the academy. Um, had several leadership positions, played football, graduated in 76, decided to go into the Marine Corps, decided to become a pilot in the Marine Corps.

Uh, I did two, six month Mediterranean deployments and one, three month Caribbean deployment decided to get out of the Marine Corps. Uh, and I went to work for Proman gamble in Albany, Georgia, Southwest Georgia. Uh, that was a very unique opportunity for me, uh, because there was so many. Vietnam veterans, 20% of the management force at proton gamble at that point in time were, uh, military veterans.

So it was kind of a good way to enter the [00:05:00] corporate world and having some people that I could lean on that had been there before. Uh, the other thing that was pretty unique about that opportunity, it was. Uh, a manufacturing plant that had just been started. I got there in 81 and 71. The leadership said they wanted to start the same, have the same multicultural mix as the community.

And that was pretty unique in that point in time. So when I got there in 81, 40% of the technicians were, uh, African American and 20% of the managers were African American and 20% of the managers were women. Unheard of. And so. Georgia during that time period. So I learned a lot about how do you really lead in a diverse environment?

And we had the best results in the companies, in all the plants that we were in. So it was kinda like a, uh, uh, a think tank or a new wave way of doing business. That was a great foundation for leadership. Five years there, Cincinnati for two years, corporate headquarters left and went to Frito LA for three years, I go from a [00:06:00] paternalistic organization to an organization that’s upper route Frito, very bad culture.

Uh, after three years, I said, you know what? This is not what I want, but I learned a lot. Went to a, uh, company called Colgate Palm Hills, pet nutritions, Topeka, Kansas union facility there. First time I’d ever been exposed to a union facility. Uh, my boss was a, uh, plant manager, former plant manager of P and G and vice president of freedom.

So he wanted to mold the two cultures. So that’s what we did. Then we took a traditional union facility. Topeka Kansas and turned it into a high performing work system. We had the best results in the system there at that organization. Also I’m constantly moving west. Parents are getting older. I want to live somewhere between where my parents were living in Virginia and where, where my wife is from in Florida.

So I took a position as the vice president of manufacturing for done lab slot. And you making golf balls, uh, after about a year, my boss and I agree to. [00:07:00] Uh, and, uh, we decided to part ways, so I’m in the right location, no job. I said, what am I gonna do? Do I really wanna work for somebody else? Or do I wanna work for myself?

And it always kind of had that entrepreneurial spirit, like my dad. So I said, you know what, I’m gonna step out in faith. And. Used my Rolodex at the time and, and say, uh, who do I know and who could get me work? So that’s what I did and started getting work. That’s amazing. Yeah. I guess you, back then, it was the Rolodex.

I don’t think there was LinkedIn and all that . Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And, uh, so that was, that was, that was unique thing. And then I, I, uh, the other thing. Kind of happened along the way was while I was in text in Topeka, Kansas with Colgate Palm, I went to a program called the looking glass experience.

Mm-hmm in Greensboro, North Carolina, and got certified in that. So that gave me some coaching experience as well as it allowed me to work with some high powered executives. And I really understood what the issues were and how to address. Yeah. I mean, gosh, I can see that all that [00:08:00] experience that you’ve had, uh, enables you to be a, a great coach and consultant.

Now that’s awesome in helping organizations. I’m curious, what was it about you that, um, Led to you listening to your parents. a lot of, a lot, a lot of teenagers and stuff. They’re like, whatever my dad says, or mom, I’m doing the opposite. So you, you keep saying, I listened, you listen to your coach, you listen to your teacher, you listen to your parents.

Why? Well, One was, I was taught at a very young age to pay attention or they’re gonna be consequences. Okay. So that probably started it. Right. so I, so then what I developed was I says, you know what? I at least have to act like I’m listening. okay. You know, so, but I, I actually listen and, um, and the way I looked at it was, okay, I’m gonna get this information and I’m not gonna be disrespectful.

If I can use it, I’m going to use it. If I can not use it and not [00:09:00] get caught, then you know, that’s then that’s what I’m gonna do. You know, it, it amazes me now and I got the same issue with my kids and I, I tell ’em something and I mean, they have a, they have a high powered coach that they’ve had the, the opportunity to live with for many years and they don’t take advantage of it.

I don’t get. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My kids too, sometimes I’m like, uh, yeah, it’s so interesting. You know, someone else will tell ’em the same thing and they’ll be like, ah, so, and so said, uh, well, didn’t I tell you that, I guess it doesn’t matter. I think all parents experience that. Yeah. And then the other thing is, you know, how you’ve talked about how you learned from all of your experiences and some of them weren’t the best, like at Frito LA or when you, you and your boss decided to agree to disagree.

Um, you know, they weren’t the best situation, but you looked for what, what’s the gift and the opportunity here and how can I move forward? Exactly. How’d you learn that you, how did I don’t um, [00:10:00] I don’t know. I, um, I guess I learned at some point in time that was more valuable to. To, to listen as opposed to trying it out myself and, and mm-hmm, being unsuccessful, you know?

Yeah. And, and as I’ve gotten older, I’ve, I’ve employed that more and it’s actually in my book, but my philosophy is why am I gonna beat my head against the wall? If somebody’s telling me that you’ll get a bloody head. If you beat your head against the wall, I don’t need to try it. I’ll take that wisdom and try something else.

So why’d you go to the Naval Academy? You knew you’d be beating your head against the wall? Well, that one was, that was interesting. Um, I had no. No idea that I was going into the military, I thought about it, but I didn’t. Um, my dad never talked about being in the Marine Corps. Mm-hmm , uh, until I got to the Naval academy.

But, uh, when I got the, when I heard about the opportunity and what the opportunity presented, and I [00:11:00] said, I’m always, uh, Even before the parade appearance, even before I understood what the parado principle was, I always looked at data and said, okay, what’s the best choice. Mm-hmm. And I said, of all my opportunities and I wanted to play football, uh, and I wanted to go for free.

Yeah. That was the only place that offered me that yeah. Simplistically. And then the education was, you know, unparalleled, if you, you know, if you do the, uh, analysis and the assessment of it. Right. So that’s what kind of got me. That’s kind of, same with me. I mean, I did grow up in Northern Virginia where a lot of my friends had parents that were in the military or.

Worked for the government, but I was oblivious to all of that. You know, I just didn’t really pay attention to it. My parents weren’t in the military. My dad couldn’t serve cuz he had a, had a knee injury and um, I got recruited to play basketball. So, um, I got recruited by west point and I went up there and it was cold and rainy and everyone was wearing gray.

And I’m like, uh, I don’t know about this. And then I, I went to the Naval Academy. It happened to be one of those beautiful weekends and the sailboats are out there. And I just thought this is [00:12:00] really nice. And it’s closer to where I live and I like the basketball team. And I thought, well, if I get hurt, I’m still gonna get an education.

Right? My education is first, not my not basketball or, or football, um, for you. And so, um, I went there and then I must have liked something about it. I worked for the Navy for 34 years after that, so yeah. So, um, what are some of the. Why, why is it important to have a workforce that represent is representative of the community?

You talked about that with, uh, that company in Georgia that you worked for and how that was kind of unusual at that time. And that’s still a topic that we’re talking about these days. So why is that so important? Exactly. I had an opportunity to experience the value of it. Um, and. When I think about it’s a lot of different ways that it’s applicable in other environments that we don’t think about.

Just think about the military. Okay. Let’s do it this way. Think [00:13:00] about what is the most elite fighting force in the world? What would you consider that to be? Oh, it would be seals or the green brass, you know, exactly those kinds of, okay, so let’s, let’s take the Navy seals. Mm-hmm the Navy seals have a, uh, their unit, their smallest unit.

Okay. Is very diverse. everybody’s got different skills. Mm-hmm they know what the mission is, but they’ve all got different skills and they don’t care when they’re on mission. If you grow your hair long or not, right. They don’t care if you wear your hair backwards or not. All they care about is, are you competent?

Are you the best at what you do? Are you part of the team and are you gonna cover my back? That’s what they care about. Now. The other thing that I found out. The seals later on in life, who’s this, I was talking to a guy that was in the seals. I actually had a, I had a guy that went to Marine military academy with me, as well as graduated from me, that retired as a seal, but I didn’t get it from him.

I got it from somebody else. [00:14:00] And this is what he told me. He said, everybody that he knows of, that’s a Navy Seal has been marginalized and or bullied. And or been through some very, very tough times. We’re talking things like child molestation, we’re talking abusive, parents, we’re talking alcoholic parents.

Right? So in order to get through the seals, you have to have a chip on your shoulder. When you get there, you have to know that you can’t hurt me. Mm-hmm . So if I’m gonna, if I’m gonna create a crackpot team, I’ll get a diverse team. That’s marginalized. Give them a mission, give them the tools and they will beat any team.

You can think of any team you put together. I love that. I love that. How are, so you, is this something that you coach in? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. That’s what, you’re what you’re doing every day. [00:15:00] Yeah. And it’s not. And when you think about the military, when I went to the Naval academy, I went to the Naval academy the first or second day.

The first thing you did, I don’t know if it was the same thing with you. You, you identify yourself what your company makes, the 30 or 40 Plebes that come in, you talk about yourself. What you like to do, where you’re from, what sports you play, you know? Yeah. You’ve got people for, that’s one of the good things about the Naval Academy.

You gotta have people from all across the. Country city, uh, black, white, Latino, um, uh, football, soccer, you know? So each company is a melting point melting point. Yeah. So you learn about differences, dialects and all kinds of stuff. So yeah. You know, that’s one of the values of the Naval academy, right. And even more so now, cause when you went there, how many, uh, African Americans were in your class?

We had, uh, 70, about 76 that came into my class. We graduated about 42 mm-hmm in my company of, I think we came in with 36 Plebes. I was the only black Plebe [00:16:00] in my company. There were no black third class, second class or first class. So I was only black in my company. And then every year, uh, about two African Americans came in.

So that was kind of the environment that I came. Yeah. And so your dad moving you from, uh, DC, where everyone looked like you to Spotsylvania where that wasn’t the case gave you the opportunity to experience that. So when you went to the Naval academy, it wasn’t the first time you had experienced being in that situation.

Exactly. I had already developed a mindset that, you know, it’s not what you call me. It’s what I answer to. And if you have a problem, it’s not my problem. , I’m not gonna spend my time on your problems. yeah. And, and I’m gonna be very strategic on what I say and what I do. I’m not jumping at everything you say, you know, I’m gonna pick and choose my battles.

So I’d already developed some, some coping mechanism. Yeah. How did your parents help you or who helped you when you moved to Spotsylvania with that? Cuz I mean, I don’t even know if you were expecting to be in that situation or if you had any [00:17:00] clue once you moved from DC. No, I didn’t. I didn’t, uh, there was at the, when I moved there, there was still an all black school.

Okay. But there was a school that had been, uh, voluntarily integrated about two or three years before. So that’s the school that my parents had me go to. Right. So, um, One of the things that, that really helped was the fact that I became part of the sports team. Yeah. And the, probably I say that the third, most influential person in my life was coach sparks.

Who’s my football coach, baseball coach. So. Coach sparks was, was a lot like Vince Lombardi. I don’t know if you know who Vince Lombardi was. Mm-hmm , he’s a legendary coach. Uh, and matter of fact, he’s the one in that I know of. Maybe wasn’t original, but kind of originally coined the term quitters never win and winners never quit.

Got it. So about five years ago, about five, five to 10 years ago, coach sparks, who was still living he’s about 78 years old. Right. He sent me. [00:18:00] The original book. He bought a book. He, well, he got a book, um, that was the story of Vince Lombardi. And he had written on and everything like that. And that’s where I saw, oh, that’s where that came from.

So he patterned his coaching style from Vince Lombardi. Vince Lombardi was a no nonsense person, took care of his, his team and was one of the first NFL coaches that had black players on his team, you know? Oh, wow. Now he upside it. Let me tell you the other thing about this. Um, Coach sparks grew up in Western Virginia in the hallah.

So his upbringing was very, very difficult to say the least. Um, and he had, he said he had two people in his life that saved him, his principal and his coach, and those individuals poured in him. He was a all American quarterback, uh, played art, American baseball. Uh, and, and, and he just brilliant [00:19:00] guy, brilliant guy.

Wow. Uh, and when he came to Pennsylvania, uh, when they, they, they, when they merged the schools, he was 26 years old. Wow. 26 years old history teacher, he, um, was a, was a coach. And then he, um, he worked on the weekends at, um, shared motoring as a bartender. Wow. Uh, but brilliant guy, just a, just a brilliant. I’m sure.

He’s proud of you. That’s awesome. What an influence that he had on your life and, and he, and he’s got thousands of thousands of, uh, athletes that he’s putting put through college, you know, doing the same. Wow. I had a similar mentor in my life as coaching, uh, coach, rod Jenkins, um, who coached at WT woods in high school.

He coached people like Tommy Amaker who played for Duke and, uh, is now the, uh, coach, uh, at, I think it’s Harvard, but, um, you know, he had a lot of influence on people. So I think when you play sports, like, you know, I had, I told you earlier that I played, um, sports too. I played basketball. And [00:20:00] so I grew up playing basketball against guys all the time.

I even went to Red Jenkins basketball. For the guys, not the girls. That’s how I, you know, got to be pretty good at basketball, you know, like playing against tough competition. And so when I went to the Naval academy, I, I too, like you had experienced a similar situation where I was a minority, so I kind of knew.

And then when you have that team environment where everyone’s got a common purpose, everyone’s going towards the same goal and that’s the kind of environment that leaders can create at work too. I’m sure that’s how you, some of the things that you help leaders with in your coaching. So tell us a little bit about your book.

I see the, the background there, leadership overcoming adversity with authenticity. Yeah. Uh, I went through some professional speaker training and one of the things they said was if you have a book, it kind of legitimizes what you do. And it’s also a, a very good calling card mm-hmm . So I went through the training with my daughter and.

[00:21:00] Wanted to do it, but I never, I never did it because it was kind of intimidating to have it grammatically flow, have somebody wanna read it. And when I was diagnosed with, uh, stage four non-kin lymphoma, In 2010, I started writing some notes down on paper about, you know, it was called the blessing in the storm.

Uh, and then later on my, my daughter who is 31 now, and this was five years ago, she called me one day and said, dad, are you serious about writing your book? And I says, yes, she says, are you committed to writing your book? I said, yes, , you’re committed to writing your. I’ll pay for the services up through the manuscript.

And I have a young lady that I’ll connect you with. That’s a book coach. So with that, she took away all the excuses. Yeah. And I got down to business, contacted the book coach and, uh, got through it in about four months. I had the vision of the cover of being Scarlet and gold, which are the Marine Corps colors.

My, my [00:22:00] wings of gold. Uh, and then, uh, on the. And, and also got the mara Luke sword on there also, which is the sword of a, of a Marine officer. Then on the back, my daughter wrote the, um, the little biography and, uh, I just, I just, I, the way I’ve always lived, my life is things would happen. I say, okay, what did I learn from it?

Mm-hmm and what am I gonna do differently? So that’s the way the book is. So I just started thinking about stories times in my life, throughout my life. And what did I learn and what could I share? And that’s kind of the way it’s, uh, designed. And after each chapter is actually a page. That ask you question, what did you learn from Carl?

What are you gonna do differently? How are you gonna apply what you learned? So it’s almost like a workbook and it ties back to what you said about how you look at situations of, um, you know, what could I learn from it? And that you don’t wanna, you know, experience something that somebody else already experienced, you can learn from how they experienced it.

So exactly that influenced your [00:23:00] book clearly. Yep. Yeah. And this, because I’ve had so many D. Opportunities. We’re talking integrating school, we’re talking, living in different different states. We’re talking about union environment, Frito lake Colgate, Palm ma Albany, Georgia Marine Corps, military aviation nonprofits, uh, you know, working all those arenas substitute teacher.

Parenting, right? Yeah. That’s right. Parenting. That’s a big one. Fact, if I was gonna write another book, that’s what it would be. It would be stories about my children. oh yeah. Parenting. You gonna have to get their permission for that. Uh, no. Well talk about parenting cuz that’s something that you’re really passionate about.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, one of the things that I believe. You know, different people have different definitions of success. My definition of [00:24:00] success is to rear healthy, happy, productive adults that love the Lord have high values, uh, and believe in giving. So that’s my definition of, no, it’s not, it’s not children.

It’s grandchildren. So we’re skipping a generation it’s grandchildren. Right? Okay. That’s the, to me that’s success. And you reach a point where, I mean, I’m at that point now I don’t have any grandkids, but I’m at that point now where one of my, my son is married, my daughter’s not, but, um, My opportunity to pour into the next generation is limited

Yeah. So I gotta make sure that I pour into them, whatever they need to pour in so they can pour into the next generation. So that’s, that’s a definition of success, uh, that I have the ultimate definition of success. Well, in some ways, I mean, I am a grandparent to a, a, a [00:25:00] recently turned six year old. And in some ways I can say it seems to me a little easier to pour it into my grandchild than it was with my children.

I’ve heard that , it’s just such a different relationship, but it’s awesome. So look forward to that. So what advice do you have for, for parents? Cuz you said also something about being successful is you can drop. Your your child off in New York city and they can survive. Yeah. I always start with the end in mind.

So, um, I think that once the child leaves high school and they’re not under your roof, I mean, today it’s even worse because, because of the internet. So now once they get the phone, they’re kinda outta your preview, but yeah, there’s, you can still see ’em physically, but. When they leave high school and they either go to college, start working or whatever, then they need to have the tools and the skills to be able to survive [00:26:00] on their own.

Not only survive, but thrive mm-hmm . And even if they go to a college that is a quote unquote Christian college, there’s still wolves in sleep in, in sheep’s clothing, you know? Right. So they need to be able to, um, I think they need to be able to. Earn a living be able, you know, know that money doesn’t grow on trees.

Mm-hmm because if you, if you make money, then you manage money. If mama’s giving you money all the time, then it’s, you know, you know, it’s no big deal. Yeah. So being able to, to, to, to work, earn a living, uh, man, and the other thing that working for somebody does is it lets you know that you need to be able to listen to other.

I’ll give you a quick story about my son. Okay. So when we talk about why is it work important? Okay. He worked at a company called, uh, champs, right. And he got there. He’s a natural born salesperson. Mm-hmm within three weeks. He’s the number one salesperson in the store three months. He’s the number one salesperson in [00:27:00] the division.

Right. Just great. I asked him one day, I said, Carl, I said, Carl, you know what, um, how’d you get your training? I didn’t get any training. I said, well, how do you do it? He told me the process. Parents come in, I find out what they want. Find out what the child wants. Parent, go sit down or whoop makes the match happy parent happy son.

So that’s what he did. So he and his boss that hired him were, uh, in sync. He’s making a lot of money. I mean, for the company. And after about six months, the boss changed new boss came in new bosses, like oil and water. So one day my son calls me and he says, dad, uh, John won’t let me leave. What? Let me speak to John.

So I talked to John, John. Yeah. I’ll let him go in a few minutes. So, uh, sure enough, um, shortly after that, and if you look familiar at the malls, you have the big gates, they go down when they yeah. Close the thing. Okay. So my son goes out, the gate goes down, the guy says you’re fired. [00:28:00] John says you’re fired.

Turn your stuff in. You’re. Okay. So my son calls me and tells me what happens. Right. I said, okay. I said, okay, so what you gonna do? Wait, you didn’t pick up the phone and call, uh, the boss and advocate for your son. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was already in a toxic environment. I couldn’t fix that. and even so, you know, you rarely wanna teach your son to handle it.

Right? Exactly. I said, what you gonna do? So part of the issue was he was gonna get some extra hours at another store. Mm. And the boss was, that was one of the many things he was mad about. So my son says, well, I’ll go down the foot locker and see if I can get a job there. So he went down the foot locker.

and got another job, right. So it’s much easier to walk through that lesson with a 17 year old that doesn’t have any obligations yeah. Than a 30 or 40 year old. That’s got a family, [00:29:00] right. And an income and a house. And the same thing happens. So, you know, so that’s why that was a lot of lessons there in working, right?

Yeah. Being able to work and provide for yourself, um, being able to do your own laundry, being able to navigate, being able to get around in the city, go to a, a new city. And, and how do you figure out how to get around? It’s a little easier now. Cause you got Uber, but then you need to have a map bus or whatever, some kind of way to do.

Uh, being able to develop healthy relationships. Mm-hmm, , uh, being able to find a body of believers that you could worship with all that stuff is critical. Uh, when they leave your, your, your, your, um, your, um, house. Yeah. I remember when my son turned 13, he told me he wanted be treated like an adult. And so I said, okay, you can do your own laundry from here on out.

I’m not doing your laundry. That’s part of being an adult that’s. You know what that reminds me of that reminds me of the 18 year old. That [00:30:00] joins the military, joins the Marine Corps and says I’m leaving home because I’m tired of, y’all telling me what to do. so it joins the Marine Corps. yeah, you’ll be bossed around a lot.

It’s just interesting, I think, but everyone’s different, you know, my son’s doing great now, but he, he, and he is somebody who needs to learn naturally and one day. Coaching. I, I was the coach of his basketball team after a while. I just couldn’t do that anymore. Um, as when my kids got older, I thought it was better for somebody else to be the coach.

But I remember one day at home, I was trying to teach him something. He goes, mom, I just wanna learn naturally. And you know, he has with his life. He’s, he’s not necessarily like you, I mean, he’s starting to get a little bit like that where he learns from other people’s, but I’m not criticizing him at all.

It’s just like, everyone’s different. Right. And he has always, uh, learned naturally. So. You know, there’s a, I was looking at, um, this documentary and it, it analyzed several people. I mean, [00:31:00] we’re talking people at the very top of the sports arena. We’re talking Wayne RedSky, uh, I think they profiled, uh, uh, Kobe Bryant and they profiled what else they profiled.

They profiled, uh, uh, a wide receiver. For, uh, San Francisco can’t think of his name now. Uh, wide receiv, great wide receiver. And one of the things that, that Wayne Greski said was he says my, my, I was allowed to create mm-hmm I was allowed to create, so I’ll look at the I’ll I’ll look at the I’ll look at the Serena Williams sisters.

Okay. Mm-hmm. The dad took them out of a system, a proven system that would get you through to the tops level. But the dad says, no, they’re not doing it that way. So he taught them very unorthodox ways to do stuff. Right. Which had never been trying before. Yeah. You know, Wayne Grees said, you know, I, I had an opportunity to create, and my [00:32:00] thing was, I wanna be where the ball’s supposed to be.

Not where it. You know, so it came up one of the things that Larry, um, God can’t even think of his Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice. So think about Jerry Rice said I used to practice catching the ball in the dark, you know, so all these different things. So, so it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, a balance between learning for the best of the best and being able to create your own stuff.

That’s true. That’s exac that, I love that. That’s right. So, um, what are. You’ve been through two near death experiences, right? Or life challenging experiences. Maybe you can talk about that. And, and what are some lessons that you’ve learned from those experiences? Okay. When I got outta the Marine Corps, I had a physical and in the physical, they said that you could look at the chart and see that the hearing on my right ear, the high decimal rage was constantly decreasing mm-hmm

So when I got. Uh, the doctor told me that I had wax in my ears so [00:33:00] I get outta the Marine Corps, go to Proctor and gamble, year two, I have my second annual physical and the same thing is happening. Right? So I went to have a brain scan and determined that I had an acoustic OMA, which is a tumor on the hearing nerve on the right side of my ear.

It can, um, cause your, uh, your, your cheek to droop and, or you lose. So they went into the right behind my ear. Uh, Dug a, a, a small hole, uh, got the, um, tumor out, pulled the skin over, stapled it up. And, uh, so that to remove the acoustic aroma. But during that time period, uh, my parents came down. I was 32 at the time my parents came down, my mother stayed with me and that was the first time I heard my dad say that he loved me mm-hmm he showed love, but I never heard it verbalized before.

So that was unique. The other thing was. You know, you know, military football player, Marine Corps, you know, you almost [00:34:00] think like you’re invincible, right? Yeah. When you go under the knife, you realize, you know what, I am not all that in a bag of chips. . Yeah. And, and, and so I learned, uh, you know, how, how blessed I was, how blessed it is to have good.

Yes. And I can remember praying, uh, before I went into knife and I said, Lord, if I don’t make it through this, I’ve lived a wonderful life because I look back and I said, what do I have to be grateful for play football at the Naval academy, Marine Corps, pilot property. Yeah. Well, I, you know, I’ve had a lot of good experiences, you know, mm-hmm so if I leave now, you know, it’s been pretty good.

not that I want to. Yeah. But it’s all about perspective. So that was the first, uh, first one. And. I had a dog at the time called chic obis trained dog. And we used to walk every day. Uh, and after about two months, uh, the doctor said you could go back to doing what you’re doing before. Okay. And then in 2010, I went in for a routine [00:35:00] colonoscopy, December 23rd, 2010, went in for a routine.

Colonoscopy. Doctor says everything looks good. Uh, and I went to Florida with my wife to visit family and my stomach started hurting. Uh, couldn’t lay on my stomach. Couldn’t lay on my back. Went. So the doctor said, doc, something’s wrong. Did a bunch of tests know they di they gave me some pills at two different times and nothing helped it.

Then he says, okay, I’m gonna do an x-ray of your stomach. So it does an x-ray of my stomach. And he says, I see enlarged lymph nodes in your stomach, and I’m gonna refer you to an oncologist. So that was the first time I heard the C word. Oh, that’s a scary diagnosis. Yeah. Mm-hmm so I, um, Had several bone marrow tests, blood tests, scan tests, pet scans to kind of figure out exactly what it was.

So diagnosed me with stage four, non Hodkins lymphoma, uh, lymph nodes are all in your body, all over the place. And, uh, so the, the lymph nodes in my stomach were [00:36:00] swollen. By the time I was diagnosed, I look like I was six months pregnant. Suning in his face. Suning in arms, Suning in legs. I look like one of those starving kids from.

Um, so I go into, uh, see the oncologist and, uh, there was a navigator there and I was with my wife and, uh, my wife starts crying and the navigator says, Carl, you can beat this, but you have to have a positive attitude. So, um, uh, so part of my regimen, you know, having a positive attitude, that’s, that’s the key thing.

So the, the, um, di the solar regiment was to have six rounds of chemo. S, uh, three weeks apart. Uh, and then after that, uh, he said originally eight rounds, I actually had six and then the cancer was gone. So, um, I was cancer free, uh, and then did the recovery mode. So, uh, I did a lot of walking and during that time period, when I was walking, uh, you know, one of the things that [00:37:00] happens when you’re going through stuff.

There’s a tendency to have negative things in your head. Yeah. Uh, and the only way I know how to remove negative is to put positive in it’s kind of like light and dark can’t occupy the same space. Mm-hmm so I gotta put some light in my head, some positive stuff in my head. So I used to, um, uh, I would say averse, I would say the 23rd Psalm, or I’d say recite the Lord’s prayer or the prayer of J best until the negative stuff went outta my head.

I could be sleeping at night, not able to sleep. Keep reciting that till I went to sleep and, or I would listen to, uh, soothing music. Uh, yeah. So that along with, uh, and I actually walked, I was, um, I had my first chemo and one of my neighbors was a survivor of breast cancer survivor. And she called me and she says, Carl, I want to encourage you.

And I’ll talk to you about what I call my chemo walk. So she developed what she called a chemo walk. She was a marathoner. And, um, she said her chemo walk was, even though she was going through chemo, she would walk every. [00:38:00] So I got up for the first time after that call and walked with a neighbor, a 13 year old neighbor in the neighborhood for a couple of blocks.

And every day I used to walk. That’s awesome. And, uh, you know, that, that did a lot of things. If I couldn’t figure out something positively to do I go walk. Yeah. Cuz exercise getting outside that could really help clear your mind as well. Exactly. Wow. Um, so let’s get back to you, you know, looking at the title of your book there and, and it has the.

Authenticity. Why is authenticity so important? The title, the subtitle is my daughter’s idea. I mean, it’s, it’s true, but she came up with the tagline. I’ll give her credit for the tagline. Okay. But it’s, uh, it’s so important. What I have found out over time is that again, I, I, I talked about experience with everybody having issues.

Mm-hmm so. Most people walk around holding stuff in. And not [00:39:00] being authentic. And it’s even worse now where you got Facebook and you got Instagram, everybody’s living their best life, you know, showing the, the best selfies they can do. So nobody talks about the struggles and everybody has struggles. Yeah.

So everybody, exactly. So being able to talk to people, listen to people, not talk, listen to people, empathize with them and help them solve problems. It’s critical. It’s critical for managers. It’s critical for military officers. It’s critical for any leader. So why, why, but doesn’t that, doesn’t that like, get in the way of getting the job done.

I mean, if you, as a leader have to sit and listen to somebody saying about one of their woes in life, you know, I mean that, isn’t that a waste of time cuz you’ve got their life. What’s going on at home is going on at home and it, and you’ve got a job to do and a mission at the. Yeah, that’s a, that you’re teeing that up for me.

cause you, because you can’t [00:40:00] check your, you can’t check your outside stuff at the door. If you have had a, a fight with your wife or your husband and you bring it to work, it’s gonna affect you. If your child is on dialysis or is on drugs or what it’s gonna affect you. So you can’t separate it. So let’s use this example.

Um, dang, what was I gonna use? Um,

I can’t think of an example when I was gonna use how, how, how important it was. Oh gosh, what was it? But, you know, it’s like, well, okay. I guess it’s important that somebody, uh, is going through that, but that’s something for them to deal with at home with a counselor. Like why me as a leader of a company, should I even get involved in that?

That’s gonna take away a lot of my time. I’ve gotta go run the company. Right. Gotcha. Sticking note. What I was thinking about was this, and this would kind of backdoor that. So when I worked for proctor and gamble, I’d been there for five years and I was a department manager and [00:41:00] my boss was a woman. And she was a nontraditional woman.

When I say nontraditional, she came up through the organizational development rank. She wasn’t an engineer or anything like that. Mm-hmm and she was older mm-hmm and she had adopted three kids of different racial backgrounds. Okay. So she’s my boss. Mm-hmm so her approach to getting stuff done was totally different than anybody else.

I’m gonna give you this example. That’ll kind of talk a little bit about what you, what you it’s different, but it’s the same mm-hmm so when we had meetings, when we had our weekly meetings, she would start the meeting off by saying, okay, let’s check in and see what’s going on in your life. She went around the table, right?

So let’s say you were, at that time, you had. You know, you were struggling with something with your child. Yeah. Right. And you shared that in the group, the group would help you problem solve that. Okay. Now the meeting was maybe an hour, maybe two hours, whatever at a time was. So you’re [00:42:00] taking up time for that.

And sometimes we didn’t even get to the agenda, but you know what happened? Right. The work got done. Cause we cared about each. The work got done. Now the flip side is that let’s say you got a, you got a team, you got an hour meet. You’re very efficient. Nobody brings anything personal in and you go through the agenda, but it’s not as productive outside of the meeting.

You’re going through the motions when nobody cares. Yep. Yep. And that’s so important these days with people really wanting to feel valued and, um, you know, a lot what we’ve learned, uh, with COVID. I think that brought a lot of us together and some companies are, um, embracing, continuing that culture of. You know, being able to talk about personal stuff at work and, and that you bring your whole self to work.

And I’ve seen LinkedIn change even with people’s posts, you know, being much more vulnerable and sharing, um, challenges, not just, um, [00:43:00] how everything’s perfect. And, uh, I used to sit at the Naval academy in my, um, in science or, and, or math class and looking out across seven river and see these big houses and think those people there.

They just have a perfect life. little did I know, you know, I, you know that no matter how senior you are, no matter what you own or whatever, everyone experiences challenges in life, and it makes us feel connected when we can share that. I’ll tell you a story, a quick story that, uh, kind of addresses that a little bit.

So I was, uh, doing my pitch to coach for a. Naval academy Marine retiree. Right. And I give my pitch and, and, and this person started up a company that was very, very successful making all kinds of money. Right. Uh, so I give him my pitch and he [00:44:00] says, okay, Carl, he says, I don’t want you to take this the wrong way.

How, how can you, how can you help me? How can, how can you really help me? You know, uh, I’m retired from the, from, from the Marine Corps. Uh, I’ve got this multimillion dollar business and I got all these cars. How can you help me? Mm-hmm and this is what I said. I asked them a question. I said, what does a CEO of a fortune 500 company have in common with the superintendent of a school system?

An Admiral in the Navy. Okay. And a, an entrepreneur that’s in a successful. And, and, and I said, a senior pastor of a megachurch, what do they all have in common? He says, I don’t know. They’re very successful as well. Yeah. But one thing they have in common is they don’t have anybody. They can talk to mm-hmm , that’s true.

If you are a general in [00:45:00] the Marine who you gonna talk to, you can talk to your troop. Right. If you, if you, if you are the fortune 500 company who you gonna talk to your people on the people on the floor, you don’t have anybody to talk to. And the people that are talking to you to you are blowing smoke up.

You’re behind. Yeah. They’re not telling you the truth. Keep your job. yeah. So they’re speak truth into you. They can help you with blind spots that you don’t have, right. So he bought it. That’s good. That’s a, that’s a really good comeback because there, we all have blind spots that we can’t see. No matter how hard we try.

And that’s the value of a, of a really good coach. Um, yeah. That’s, that’s great. So, um, how. How would you recommend that? It sounds like you’ve really found your purpose with what you’re doing with the coaching and, um, and you know, based on all of your experiences that you’ve had built up to that, I mean, how do you recommend that someone determines what their purpose is in life?

Um, I think the first thing [00:46:00] is you, again, you start with the end in mind. Mm-hmm and you say, you try to envision why you’re here on this. And if you can’t get into that, then you say, okay, um, what, what, what do I want to get outta life? Mm-hmm I think that, I think in order to have a, a good conversation about that, I think you have to believe that you’re not gonna be here forever.

So you are looking for the real real end in mind. So you, you, you’re saying that you’re not gonna be, it’s a long term, we’re talking long term vision, you know, what’s your purpose and why are you here? Uh, I think that, um, people are born with certain attributes and then you learn certain skills. I think some people have natural things that they they’re gifted with hand in out coordination might be one mm-hmm

Um, Math might be one, you’re having a brain where you can analyze stuff, you know? And then there’s some things that you, you learn skills that you [00:47:00] develop over time. Uh, I believe that one of the things that I think is important, one of the things I tried to do as a parent was to expose my kids to different things, to find out what they naturally like to do.

Yeah. So I would have them in at least one team sport, one individual sport and several extracurricular activities. Uh, some type of sport is important. Some other type, my daughter was a cheerleader. She was in, uh, girl Scouts. Uh, she worked, um, she ran track. She did all kinds of time. My son ran cross country.

He had several jobs. Uh, he was in junior ROTC. They both went junior auto TCF was junior ROTC. Right. Okay. But even at a young age, um, just kind of find out what they naturally do or what, what, what doesn’t seem like work. Yeah, my son, what? He just SW what is like, yes, I can’t wait to do that. Exactly. My, my son, for example, like I said, he was a natural born salesperson and he was [00:48:00] in that job.

Right. He went to this program called boy state, uh, and some, a lot of states have it where you have several, um, rising seniors that go to this governmental retreat for a week and talk about politics and stuff like that. So you went to that and part of the process was to. Prepare and or do impromptu speeches.

Mm-hmm he came back like a new person that was the first time in his life he ever got valued for speaking. Wow. Every other time it’s kinda like shut up. You talk too much Uhhuh you know, so that was, I mean, so that’s an example. So if you can figure that out at a younger age and get ’em in something that, that they can win in.

That’s huge. Yeah. That’s really good advice. And then I think if you didn’t learn it at a young age and you’re working and you feel like you’re struggling every day and not really enjoying what you’re doing, sometimes we feel like, well, we, I [00:49:00] just gotta put up with that. I gotta earn a living. I gotta, you know, this is, this is my life, but I think that we could take a step back, take a break, like I’m going camping this weekend, not for that purpose, but, you know, get away from technology, get away from all the noise and, and really.

Think, you know, what would I love? What would, what, what is it that I love and how, what changes do I wanna make my life? And a lot of times you. Our mind will tell us, oh, you can’t change. You gotta just stay the same. You gotta stay for your retirement, whatever, all these things. And that’s just our, our mind trying to keep us safe.

But how do we know that switching and doing something that we love wouldn’t be even better for us. So, I mean, we’re only here, like you said, for a short time, why don’t we just, we should be able to just love everything, you know, as much as we can about our life. Yeah. And the flip side of that too, it’s always a balance, you know, there’s always a two sided coin.

So the flip side of that is. I’ll give, give an example. There’s a young man. That’s a bioengineer [00:50:00] and he got scammed on, on, he got scammed through this, um, process on the internet first, right? So he loses a bunch of money, right? Uh, thinking he had a job, didn’t have a job. Anyway, he gets another job. He gets a job now and he said in two weeks, he’s bored.

He hate. Right now, he just left a place where he got scammed and, and didn’t have a job now he hates this job, right? So the, the, the, the trick is even if you don’t like doing it, if you have the mindset of I’m going to do the best I can and, and do the best I can and work, not only to this person, this boss here.

Dogging me out, but I’m working as I’m working towards the Lord, you know? Right. And I’m gonna do some other stuff at the same time, then that’s the mindset you have. Now. I talked about the different things that I had done. They weren’t all, I didn’t enjoy doing all of them. Right. You know? And, uh, one of ’em I said, okay, I’m in this [00:51:00] thing.

And I’m gonna pivot and do something different. Now, the other thing is now again, I talk about quitters, never win and winners never quit. You know, there’s a difference between quitting right. And making an assessment and saying, you know what, I can do this, but I choose not to. Right. There’s a difference, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I’ve really enjoyed our interview, Carl. And, um, maybe you can tell us your website so that, uh, people can go and that’s where they can get your book too. Right? Yes. Yes. So yeah, my website is, uh, www.Carl SharpersonJr.com. That’s my website. If you Google my name, uh, you’ll get I’m on social media and talks and stuff like that.

So that’ll pop up. Um, and then, um, The book can be gotten through Amazon or Barnes and Nobles and, or my website, either way, you can get the book, easy, read a lot of nuggets in it. Uh, and if you reach out to me afterwards, I’d love to talk to you about [00:52:00] what your thoughts are, what you learn and how I might be able to help you.

Awesome. And they can reach out on your website, right? Yes, ma’am they sure can. Okay. So, you know, this show is all about, you know, creating a life you love living. Um, what are some final tips you have for the listeners for how they can really, you know, love, love living their lives. Okay. I’ll, I’ll talk about some five simple principles that are in my book.

There are a lot of principles in it, but I’ll start off with quitters never win and winners never quit. Uh, life is going to have valleys and it’s going to have seasons. Uh, the only thing you’re guaranteed is change. Uh, and when, you know, you control what you can control things you can’t control, you let God control.

Uh, but anyway, quitters never win and winners never quit. Uh, the other thing that’s, uh, a foundational principle is always take care of your people, always take care of the troops. Uh, another key principle, which is, uh, Naval [00:53:00] academy grounded, you know, when you, uh, messed up, you had three responses, at least when I was there.

Yes. No, sir. No excuse, sir. I’ll find out, sir. Right? Right. Who you always tell the truth? Yeah. That’s another key principle. Another one is it’s always about, it’s all about relationships. Nobody gets to where they are, unless they stand on the shoulders of somebody else. Mm-hmm 80% of the people get their opportunity slash jobs or whatever through their network.

It’s not through LinkedIn. It’s not through the internet. It’s not through indeed. It’s through relationships, even in the military. Yeah. You know, people have to pave the way for you. So it’s all about relationships. And the last one for me is faith, family and friends. When I was at my darkest spot, you know, I had to rely on those three things to, to take me through.

Thank you so much, Carl. That those are wonderful tips. I really appreciate you being on the show today. All righty. It’s a pleasure being. All right. Thank you everybody for listening. [00:54:00] And I look forward to, uh, the next episode next week. Talk to you later. Bye.