Break the Matrix: Create a More Rewarding Life and Business

[00:00:00] [00:01:00]

This is the second to last Onward Live show. So this is my last interview. Next week I’m going live, but just by myself to just share some reflections

[00:02:00] after. I think it’s been about next week will be the 249th episode that I’ve done. So I’ve really enjoyed doing these interviews. Joe Simone is my guest tonight and let me bring him in.

Hi, Joe. Welcome. Hi, Emily. How are you? I’m great. So you have had a 25 plus year career in sales and you built a reputation as a new economy sales expert. And I think we have kind of a, a new economy right now, right? A challenging economy and, uh, you spent over 16 years studying and mentoring. Thousand sales experts and 350 companies.

And I think when you did that, you kind of took the, the best, uh, of what you learned and you’ve put it into some courses and you coach people. And so I’m really excited to have you here. We’re not talking just about sales though, we’re, we’re talking, you know, about how you’ve created a life you [00:03:00] love living cuz you’ve overcome some adversity in your life and, um, I think you really love your life now.

So we can talk about that too. So, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for taking time, and thank you for investing so much time in doing this over the past few years. That’s incredible. I know how much work that can be. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And it’s fun though. Every time I get on here and I get to talk to different –  I’ve met people from all over the world, so I really, I really love that.

So, Joe, tell us a, a little bit, um, about yourself. I mean, I just gave a, a little bit of a overview, but tell us a little more. Um, Sure. Um, I’ll start and I’m actually originally from Peoria, Illinois, born and raised, [00:04:00] um, out in the Midwest in a fairly small. and, um, I think at a very young age, I experimented a few things and ultimately ended up where I enjoyed my time the most, which happened to be sales simply because, you know, I grew up with parents who were very social, uh, a mother who’s very much a people person, and I didn’t really fit into the, the traditional categories of study.

Mm-hmm. , you know, coming up in school. Sometimes that’s looked down upon, you know, when you’re in your youth, when you’re in your teenage, . Luckily I didn’t have that type of really heavy pressure from my parents. They sort of let me grow into my own individual, and that ended up putting me into, uh, multiplicities of different types of sales experience, mainly just because of my enjoyment of, of working with people and, and, and enjoying the communication process and networking.

That’s so like, uh, are you saying outta high school you didn’t go do what everyone is quote unquote supposed to do and go to college? ? Well, I did. I , I [00:05:00] did back then , I actually, um, went to, uh, a community college and then I graduated, uh, from Illinois State University. Okay. With a degree in international business.

But in, in all honesty, it was a combination of a responsibility that I felt to my family who were immigrants. Mm-hmm. and, uh, to myself. I figured you. I’ve, I’ve come this far, I might as well, you know, put it in the, uh, books for myself and, and then move forward after that. Um, so I’m kind of glad that I did.

It was a different time. I graduated in the year of 2000. Okay. You know, so we didn’t have all this outside influence, the social media, the cell phones, the wasn’t there. Your inner circle. And basically the people that you saw on a daily basis were your influences. Uh, you know, and maybe a few books along the way.

Yeah. But that got me into sales and it’s been quite a journey since then. You know, that type of career, I’m sure you’ve spoken with and have done a lot of your own business development as well. And it can be a bit of a rollercoaster. You know, it can be a, a quite a bit of a [00:06:00] rollercoaster over time. It’s supposed to be.

It’s, it’s actually meant to be that way. That’s why some of the people that we have in our circles are so resilient and so full of stories and funny ones and crazy ones, and things that you would never know. It seems like every time I meet somebody that I share, like-mindedness with or I admire for their level of success, who I’m seeing in front.

At that time has nothing to do necessarily with all, or I shouldn’t say is symbolic of all the things that they’ve had to go through in order to get to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s really fun. So what’s one of your stories that you tell that people would never believe ? Oh, uh, well, you know what? My stories I find over time are becoming more and more common.

Um, my decision to move to California was an overnight decision after. Not being happy with the pay paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. I was living, um, finding myself in a situation where I didn’t know what to do. So it’s one of those stories where I, um, sort of got up and drove out here and, [00:07:00] um, basically lived out of my car for about four to five months, um, while meeting people who, uh, very quickly picked up jobs and sales and so forth, and eventually got myself into, at that time it was booming once again, the mortgage.

And, uh, was able to, within a handful of years, completely change my life and my income expectations, which eventually led me into the coaching career that I’ve had now for 16 years. Wow. So, um, I think like mindset and resiliency is a big  part of being successful in sales and in life. Right. But absolutely.

But. What are some other skills that you think that are, are that it takes to be successful in sales? Because, I mean, sales is something that’s so visible to everybody in the company. It’s visible to you. It’s um, you’re, you’re on the phone, you’re talking to people. Um, I think we’re all in sales too, in some, Sure.

Part of our lives. We’re all trying to influence people. Right. Whether you work for the [00:08:00] federal government and, you know, I had to do a lot of influencing to try to get people. Um, want to utilize small businesses instead of the large companies or to, you know Yeah. Influence people to give me some budget.

I mean, you know, when we think sale, why do people think sales is a, is a kind of a, I was just gonna touch on, you know, for years I’ve been asking all my peers, I’m like, Help me to come up with a better title for ourselves than the word sale. Yeah. I’m not on. Yeah. And um, you know, the only thing that I’ve, I’ve used over the years, I’ve said, Well, if you’re in sales, really what you are is just a communication expert.

Yes. And a lot of people say, Well, I’m not designed for sales, or, I don’t feel it’s from me. And I think it’s because of the me under the, sort of the stigma that you’re there to persuade people or to convince people to do things that they don’t want to do. And I said, Nope. Usually, you know, sales or. A communication is a natural thing for you if you have these two qualities.

Number one, you enjoy working with people and speaking with people and meeting people, [00:09:00] and number two, you truly enjoy helping them with some area of their business or life. And if you have those two values that come natural to you, you’ll probably do well, there’s a skill set ti side to it, but that can be taught and that can be taught.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I kind of, I try to look at it more as, you know, I’m, I’m introducing somebody to something and I’m, you know, offering something that can help them. Mm-hmm. . And, but it’s really up to them. And if they say, no, it doesn’t mean I’m a bad person. You have to be detached from the outcome. Right.

I’m sure you learned that too. Right? Right. You know, if you look statistically, I think it’s somewhere now around only 6% of the US workforce is in some type of sales. Wow. Yeah. Only 6%. And now why that? Well, you know, I think because of the, I’ll give you two comparisons. Number one, because of the behavioral conditioning that we go through from an early age, I just think it’s it, it suits people’s comfort zones to know exactly [00:10:00] what their paycheck is going to be.

Um, they sort of plan around that. I call it the budget trap, although, you know, that’s completely fine for some people. And people have raised amazing families and had amazing careers and lives regardless. Um, the other reason, and the thing that I look at is, you know, prior to our modern schooling system, most families had some type of a trade.

Let’s go back a hundred, 150 years. You know, my, my family comes from the background of carpentry. Almost everybody. Father’s family was a carpenter or some type of a seamstress. Mm-hmm. or something. Um, people may have worked with, uh, steel people may have, um, been, you know, whatever their family’s trade was.

And you know, as you, you probably know through your own research, through the development of the industrial age and so on and so forth, we now didn’t need entrepreneurial families. So we need workers. And, you know, almost our whole schooling system was designed around that. So just naturally I think people are more [00:11:00] comfortable, um, finding a skill in which they can receive a more steady type of a pay, and some will climb to the top and some will stay within the realms of their comfort zone pretty much their whole life.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Well, I’m curious, you know, I always ask my guest to select the title for the episode, and you selected Breaking the Matrix and creating a more rewarding life and business. Can you have both? Can you have, like, you know, cuz some people are just so focused on work and their business and everything that their, their life suffers.

How do you or their fitness suffers, or their relationship suffer? You know, how do you, how do you create a rewarding life and business. Yeah. Yeah. You’re asking me two questions. I know. Breaking the matrix. The matrix, It’s such a cool word because we all kind of grab that word from the movie.

Yeah. But as, as I, you know, at a very young age, I was possibly surrounded by some great influences and also inspired to do a lot of reading on leadership and other topics, [00:12:00] even in my teens. And so I, you know, thankfully, I realize now it was a blessing in disguise. I became very self. Um, more quickly than a lot of people in my environment.

And what that did was is it allowed me to see. In the business environment particularly is where it started. I was always curious as to why the majority of the people in the organizations that I worked for always performed at an average or slightly blower, slightly above average level. Mm-hmm. , and then later on, you know, in my mid to late twenties when I was trusted to become a director of, of actually two companies that I had worked for during that time, I real, I was, I was a little frustrated and, and fascinated by.

Why do you know 60, 70, 80, 80 5% of the people we hire have all these aspiring goals for their income, but end up getting stuck in sort of this matrix of mediocrity. I see. Yeah. So the matrix to me is multiple things. It’s [00:13:00] both based on the environment that you’re in and also the matrix that you create for yourself, and the entrapment that you create for yourself and helping people to break out of that.

It didn’t necessarily mean making them, you know, hustlers or people that had to work 80 hours a week like me. But getting people to realize that their potential, whatever you want that to be, is probably far, far greater than anything that they’ve experienced so far. I just couldn’t put my finger on what the determining factors were until a few years later.

Now, when it comes to balancing those things out, Um, the best advice I’ve gotten is it depends where you’re at in your life. Yeah. Um, you know, if you are, if you are quite happy with your circumstances or your ability to provide or what, what have you in your family, then you know, you can balance things.

Out quite a bit and, and, and have a variety of d different areas in your life that you’re contributing to or [00:14:00] receiving from. But if you’re having that go-go mentality, like a lot of the viewers and people that we have in our communities, especially in the business world or the LinkedIn type, And you can’t really say that you want to accomplish exceptional things and then still expect a, a constant balance in your personal life.

There has to be some type of temporary sacrifice made there. So, mm-hmm. , for some people, balance is, you know, doesn’t exist. It’s more of a list of priorities. Um, what am I going to. Say I want to do and is what I’m doing on a daily basis adding up to or leading me in that direction. Um, so balance to me is more so of a list of priorities.

What’s most important to you right now. Yeah. And you’re right, we go through these different phases of our lives, you know? Sure. So, Yep, absolutely. Now, the frustration I had when you’re talking about breaking the matrix was, um, I have a weakness and a strength, which I know for a fact you share , and that is, [00:15:00] as somebody who was a young, let’s just say sales leader at the time, I felt at a large degree, personally responsible for the performance of the people that were within my care.

Mm-hmm. , I didn’t really ever vibe with or agree with these concepts of you either have it or you don’t. Mm-hmm. I never really fully agree with the 80 20. where 80% of your production comes from 20% of your people. I thought that that was a bit insulting to all the other people that had expressed their goals and their dreams with me.

And for me to just take that rule and use it as a crutch to defer accountability, didn’t feel right. Mm-hmm.  Um, and at the time, which, um, you’ve seen a lot of, and we had people coming in from the Tony Robbins group and all these different types of coaching, activist. Um, but I, I realized very quickly that, you know, there is a, a significant percentage of people who really take to that and they’re committed to it, and they can [00:16:00] decode it and find out what those things mean for them in their lives.

But most of the people are not really good at consistently going through that decoding process. And so I, I wanted to, I, I knew that there was an opportunity. Um, you know, since I have that in my heart, like you and some of the others that we’ve met, to mentor people and I felt like, you know, I enjoyed teaching.

I thought, you know, there’s gotta be a more practical, more immediately applicable way to mentor people. And for me particularly, it was in the, uh, sales world. That’s what begun the coaching journey. That was in, um, 2000, January, 2006. I made that decision. Okay, got it. Yeah. And so like, who’s your ideal client?

My ideal clients on the business side are pretty much, um, sales based organizations with high ticket consulting type activities. It could be in the mortgage, it could be insurance, could be law firms, it could be tech. Right now we’re doing solar credit specialists, things like that, that have sales teams of anywhere from 30 to about 300 people.[00:17:00] 

I don’t do one on one unless it’s a favor for somebody that I’d like to do to contribute to them uhhuh, or unless if it’s a really, really unique request for somebody who, uh, I know I can have, you know, a major impact on. But it’s mainly organizations helping them to understand that the way most organizations train their people is using the method that was handed down to them in their in.

And when we say the new economy, to me, what that really means now is constant change in adaptation. Yeah. And so if you’re still training people are developing people, people along the language and the techniques and the systems that made you successful, it’s the awareness that that might not be the most effective way to do it now, just because it’s the way you’ve always done it in our business or in your industry.

You said in something that you wrote to me. in some of your talking points, that you find that there’s a need for [00:18:00] greater self-awareness and strength of character in this new world. Do you want to  expand on that? Yeah, it’s, it’s a really, um, one of my favorite topics. I was just speaking over here at a local college the other day to some business students on one of these were one of the topics we brought up. And with the obvious, you know, roll out of all of these different media sources and information sources. Not only are we in the information age, but we are just inundated with constant information.

There’s a study that I read not too long ago, I forget who the source was. You’ll have to check me on that later. Basically was, it was arguing that 99% of people’s decisions are not made autonomously by them at all. They’re made by something that has been repetitively or accumulatively programmed into their head on what they think they should do or is right for them, whether come down to the clothes you wear or the career decisions that you make.

And I thought, Wow, that’s very [00:19:00] interesting because that’s something that I’ve been seeing. Um, and as you and some of the others, and hopefully the guests too, the more you go out and you, you network with people and you meet people. And for myself, um, one of my clients said, You know, we have, we work in the same company every day, but you visit dozens of companies a year and whenever you’re, you saturate, you immerse yourself in that many environments.

You begin to see the matrix in those environments. You’re able to learn exponentially. Your experience now is almost, you know, similar to what you know, um, 10 Lifetimes would provide. Being able to visit this many organizations and speak with this many people and see behind the scenes what’s really happening in the kitchen.

And I noticed through that process that there’s, there is very, very rapidly decreasing level of self-awareness, and the best way to describe it is where people are making decisions that they’re being influenced on, [00:20:00] not necessarily that agree with their rules and values or their true identity.

Wow. And that’s really a key thing to be aware of. If you’re working on creating a life you love living, because you’re going to find that you can’t be yourself at work or you’re not being yourself, or you’re doing something that you just don’t love, but you feel like you should do that. And so how do you, how do you notice if you’re doing something that you don’t really love?

How do you know if it’s like the job or the boss or something like that versus you just don’t like it, you know, the, I guess there’s different ways to notice it. A lot of people, especially in the digital age now, they tend to show the shiny areas of their life, and then they often will put, you know, I’m blessed in the comments or something like that.

And in most cases, what you find is that object or that destination [00:21:00] wasn’t the blessing. It was somewhere along the way they received that wake up call that you just talked about. It probably wasn’t when it was sunny outside. Right. And some of the ways I try to portray that to my students and the peers that I’m working with is:  If you feel, and this particularly used to happen to me as well, when my body was tired, when my mind was tired, or we tend to have these moments. I often say when I’m role playing and I’m like, you know, you’re sitting on the couch, it’s eight 30 at night, you’re a little bit tired. It’s super busy.

You have so much going on. Life is so hectic and your mind tends to ask you questions like: What is this all for? What exactly am I doing? Where am I headed with all this? And you know I’ll tell them, You know what, what that is is my best way to describe it, for lack of better terms, is something within your soul, your identity, your virtue is trying to [00:22:00] tell you that you probably aren’t at least going in the direction of whatever that fulfillment is for you.

But you know you have to really….like you said, sitting down and then that soul starts to speak to you. But a lot of times we turn on the TV or then pick up the phone and scroll through social media and really ignore that whispering. If you, if you know, I know for myself in my career in transparency, when I start getting easily distracted.

When I start finding reasons to not focus, whether that be to go spend too much time with friends or maybe I’m, you know, out and out and about and attending too many events. Or I’m always trying to fill my time with something. It’s kind of like I’m trying to escape the reality of  what is trying to be communicated to [00:23:00] myself.

Yeah. And it’s that, you know, and, and I always come back to the word progress. I think that’s a very powerful word in our line of work, that it’s that, oh, you know what, you’re probably not making as much progress in some important area of your life or business as you should or as you used to. You’ve gotten to some new level of, of comfort, or maybe you’re not even in a comfort.

Zone, but you as an individual probably aren’t growing at, at least the minimum rate that you’re capable of. Yeah. That lack of growth tends to, you know, spiral into all kinds of weird things. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, and it doesn’t stop it, it hits you, it, it tends to hit you, you know, it could be once every 10 years.

I know. I went, You mentioned something, you know, very interesting to me before we jumped on here. Um, and how much time and effort you’ve put into these. Um, you know, episodes and you’re coaching and the service of others. Mm-hmm. . [00:24:00] And so, you know, for me it was about, it was about after I would say 12 to 13 years of coaching that I realized that I was starting to have that feeling again because.

After that 10 to 12 year run, that new area of progress that I had accomplished in my career was no longer enough to satisfy that void. It needed to go somewhere else. It needed to grow somewhere else or change somehow, and there’s no timeframe to it. I think it’s just something you need to sort of pay attention.

Yeah, that’s true. And um, you know, you mentioned like, yeah, I think my whole life I’ve been helping other people or putting the Navy’s mission first and my kids and all that. And so one of the things I’m working on is focusing on myself. You know, and, and that’s not selfish. Um, you know, taking care of my health, you know, my kid’s, um, dad passed away like three years ago and I’m the only parent left, and so I really want to be [00:25:00] healthy.

And so, you know, you said that it’s at different times in our lives. We have different priorities and. You know, I, I, I would, I’m gonna be doing more yoga and working out and, you know, the old Emily would’ve had a plan, Okay, what am I doing next? I’m gonna do something, you know, when I, I’m letting some podcasting go, So what am I gonna fill that space with?

It’s not on the calendar. It’s not happening. Yeah. And my whole life, I’ve been filling the spaces and I’m just not gonna fill the space. Just gonna see what happens that that’s, Progress for me because usually I’m just filling it with something else and I can’t even imagine, you know, what, what new epiphanies and what new journeys or, or circles or, you know, what, what happens when you do something like that?

Yeah. You know, I’d love to keep in touch, you know, maybe later on in time and, and see what, what ended up happening, you know? Yeah. You just gotta wait and see. And you know, a lot of times we like to plan everything and wait and see what your soul tells you to do. You know, [00:26:00] you get an inspiration, but it’s not gonna happen if you don’t give yourself some kind of free time to let’s, I’m to do you give yourself time to think, to reflect, or you just go, go, go, go, go.

I, I think I do in season. . Um, for example, I’m in one of those seasons right now where, um, the economy’s changing super fast and I understand it myself, but you know, there’s, there’s new challenges and how that needs to be taught and communicated. Mm-hmm. , right now, we’ve just been through a 14 year bullish economy.

It’s the longest we’ve ever gone as a country without an economic correct. And during that time it breeds, it literally breeds a lack of self-awareness and strength. Yeah, that’s, um, so right now I spent a lot of time thinking about how am I going to once again, reinvent [00:27:00] myself so that I can maintain the energy levels and the impact.

that I need to continue down this, this mission, you know, that I, I feel I’m, I’m destined for. So what’s your mission? You know, it’s, I think it continues to change and change and only recently have I been really spending some thinking time because, um, I don’t think it’s ultimately in sales, um, or in business.

Um, but I know that those are great vehicle. , great vehicles to grab attention and to build experience, you know, and, um, and skill in. Um, so I, I know it, it, it’ll probably go into, it’ll continue with the area of education I’m leaning into. Um, partnering with, uh, people and other influencers on helping to add to the type of new forms of education we have for youth, young professionals, particularly between the ages of, let’s say, 16 to like 22.[00:28:00] 

Mm-hmm. , um, you know, so that may be something that I’m launching going in the next year. Um, instead of just focusing on the adult, you know, seasoned business world. Yeah. Um, a lot of the challenges and the problems that I’d like to at least contribute to, uh, I know it’ll be much more productive to start off, start people off at a younger age.

So what do you tell people? You said that the other day you were talking to some college students, right? Mm-hmm. , what do you talk to them about? Um, the, I broke it down to four, um, necessary skills that are not often taught to them, um, in the business world or in the real world, if you wanna call it that.

And it narrowed down. Comm, you know, effective communication is always gonna be on my list. There are several actually took these out of one of my own leadership programs. Um, there are many. Lessons that come with them, but I just did a quick, you know, hour and a half highlight of it. Mm-hmm. , and number one was self-awareness in authority.

And it was, I defined it for them [00:29:00] as the ability to not be easily influenced by your, by your environment or others. Um, and for you to be the authority as often as you can in all of your decisions. Uh, and to be able to, at least at some level, Whenever you can catch it catching, it is another skill that you have to build over time.

It’s a part of self-awareness, but here’s what I’m doing, what I’m thinking, the direction I’m going, does it really agree with who I am and what my personal rules and values would be? Who am I when I’m the proudest version of myself? What does that look like in the near future and is what’s being told to me fed to me?

or, um, you know, programmed in me going to take me in that direction, Is it something that truly aligns itself with that? So I think, you know, for, for the youth, that’s a really major skill, especially right now with all of the cosmetic pressure Yeah. And sexuality going on and all of these different things that, you know, nobody’s perfect in, but it’s becoming a very, very much, I don’t [00:30:00] feel like a person of value if I don’t fit in with the.

And I think too in school, I mean, just the way the tests are, you know, we’re, we’re, I don’t know, how much are we taught to really think and have our own creative and innovative ideas and, and to be, have that courage to go off and do something that, you know, people might scoff at or whatever. Yeah. I mean, look, and it’s, it’s becoming a, a more popular convers.

It’s becoming a more and more popular, I’m not saying to the masses, but you know, in these circles, and that’s one of the reasons why you know that ability to think. Just imagine if there was like a thinking class. Remember we used to have critical thinking. Yeah, there was some version of it, you know, in, in, in school years and years ago.

I’m not sure what that looks like today. Um, but the idea we, I have t-shirts is a club that I have called the Alpha Producer Club. It’s when you reach a certain level of excellence in whatever it is that we’re training you on. We hand these [00:31:00] t-shirts, they say Alpha Producer, and on the back of the T-shirt it says, Free think.

Mm. And the five values are, um, communication, um, confidence, compassion, resilience, and authority. And, um, the, the thinking part is one of the reasons why I’m a little bit motivated right now to start developing programs for people at a much younger age. Yeah, that would be awesome. Cuz I think too, um, it’s just with social media, we don’t, we don’t really have.

I don’t know if the capacity is the right word, but the attention span mm-hmm. to really think, Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s like, again, you get back to the awareness thing. Some people are aware of it and they know how to limit it and others, um, you know, like some of my friends, they. They’re not going to follow anything or get engaged with anything on social [00:32:00] media that doesn’t contribute to something that they’re doing right now.

Mm-hmm. . But again, we’re talking about like the 1%, right? Um, you know, so, and I’ve come to the realization that for, you know, thousands and thousands of years, there’s always been mass influence. There’s always been, um, ignorance. There’s always been power. There’s always been politics, there’s always been some, you know, something that at the time was devastating.

Right. Um, and so, you know, I’ve, I’m, I’m okay with the fact that, look, when people say, Hey, I wanna change the world. Um, I think more so for us it’s more like, you know, I’d like to change some people’s world, uh, you know, along the way and. And realizing that if I were to be completely, you know, rational, or if I were to apply some type of realistic interpretation of it, it would be with the understanding of that the world is growing so [00:33:00] fast and there’s so many influences that unless you are as an individual and organization becoming so powerfully mass, massively powerful in the world.

Like the banking institutions and all this, it’s not incredibly likely that on your own you’re going to have a catastrophic effect on the world or the country. Um, but more so you know, to do what you can and to partner with people who have the same belief systems. Yeah, no, yeah. Teaming up with other people and I think part of.

I think part of making a change in the world is, you know, sometimes we feel like we’re not powerful enough to do that, but part of it is just if every one of us would become more self-aware. Hmm. If the self-awareness increased, I, I don’t know. I think collaboration would increase. Communication would increase if we had the ability to critically think instead [00:34:00] of just believing everything that’s put in front of us on social media.

If we had the ability to have to communicate and have discussions without like turning somebody off just cuz they don’t agree with you or whatever. Yeah. You know, like just not talk, you know, we’re just so polar. Yeah, the, um, I changed the rules to selling. I have a new 20 rules and rule number one is the one who understands the other individual the most, will always have the greatest influence.

Mm-hmm. , Um, not the one who thinks they’re right. Mm-hmm. not one who’s gonna see it. My point of view is better than your point of view because, Yeah. Not the one who says, My facts are more important than your facts, because like we see in, in our world and our country right now. Yeah. And then I also, you know, really, really love one of the, um, rules that you give from Tony Robbs, some of the other people out there, which is the number one rule of influence.

In order to influence someone, you must know what already influences them. Mm. And so one of the decisions I have to make is, can we make these topics [00:35:00] cool? Can we make ’em. Can we make ’em sexy somehow? Uh, you know, and use that level of power and authority, because if that’s what’s grabbing attention, then going against it and trying to get everybody to just realize the logic of it and the value of it doesn’t seem like a very successful mass, you know, impacted campaign.

Mm-hmm. , it’s the, to understand your audience and know what gets their attention. And then through that process try to have whatever impact you can. But you said it very clearly, it’s the whole idea of my side against your side or all these people who are triggered. Um, even some of the people that I agree with, um, when it comes to our country or schooling or business, I horribly agree with their delivery.

Mm-hmm. , they’re also attacking in nature. Mm-hmm. , they’re also polarizing in nature. Mm-hmm. and very rarely do they. [00:36:00] And try to ask questions to understand whoever it is that they’re conversing with or debating with’s point of view, very willing to stop to try to find at least one or two common interests or goals.

Um, you know, it’s more so bashing and arguing, and the problem with that is that’s now become part of a culture. Yeah. You see it in people’s Facebook comments. You see it, you know, you say something intelligent and you get a hundred. You say something controversial and you get a million, you know, So how do you combine those two worlds and is it time for, you know, people who, who can have an impact, who can make a difference?

Is it time for us to start understanding the game? Hmm. The great game? Yeah. Good po Good point. Good point. Instead of calling it out, maybe we should learn how to use it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hi Bill. Thanks for joining us tonight. Uh, if you have any questions, uh, for me or Joe, let let us know. [00:37:00] So, how was it living in a car?

You, you know, I’ll go back to, you know, when you first started, you know, you moved from what, Illinois, right? Yeah. To California and you’re living in a car. Um, I mean, it, it had its ups and downs. It’s a bit of a blur now, um, because I’m so grateful for it. Um, you know, I was coming from Chicago in February, 2002 and in Chicago it was probably like three degrees outside.

Mm-hmm. and there was ice on the ground. At least you weren’t living in a car in Chicago. Oh my gosh. In California. I remember when I got here, I literally started working my first day because I had orchestrated a job interview at a health club during my drive and um, I remember. Realizing that it was February and like 78 degrees outside.

And I thought, you know, who has been hid? Who’s been hiding this from me? , hey. Or do these people lie to [00:38:00] me , Uh, you know, and um, it had its ups and downs, all kinds of crazy stories. I mean, I have so many fun stories. We could go on for hours, but one of the ones that, that sticks out the most is. Is while I was, you know, um, basically when you are, when your back’s against the wall and you’re fortunate enough to have a good upbringing and some focus, you know, and some faith, you’d be surprised what you can do.

And, uh, during that time, I remember getting a phone call from one of my best friends who’s pretty well off, very successful businessman, and he asked me, um, how much money do you have in your pocket? And I said, Why? What does it. And he goes, How much money do you have in your pocket? And I said, Let me ask you a question.

Yeah. What’s the temperature over there? ? And I think I had like $8 or something that day. . But it was necessary, I think. Um, um, I’m not by any means perfect. I’ve got so much work to do. But you know, I come from a [00:39:00] Christian family, pretty strong faith and. I now realize that if, now that I know the path that I’m going down and I’ve been going down for a while, I don’t think that I would be able to have a great enough understanding of other people’s challenges had I not been tested dozens of times before.

Yeah. So it wasn’t just living in the car. You said you’ve had, you’ve lost your home, you were evicted, you, you lost your credit a couple times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, those were, those were all part of, um, you know, I, I don’t want them to keep happening. I didn’t want them to keep happening, but they eventually became the stories that triggered some area of my study.

Mm-hmm. some area of my message. Um, next week I’m speaking at a large, um, mortgage conference here in the area, and, you know, I’ll be sharing some of those stories. Mm-hmm. , um, and, and having fun and, and, you know, relating to everybody that’s out there in the audience and what the economy’s going through right now and so forth.

But I don’t [00:40:00] think that you can truly. Um, you know, I may be wrong. There’s no absolutes. I, I, I don’t like it when people use absolutes, like never or always, but I don’t think that you can really go out there and, and do what we do extremely successfully and compassionately, unless you’ve had at least four or five really challenging times.

Whatever those might be, it makes it much easier to recognize challenges in other people. Mm-hmm. and it makes it much easier to understand them and communicate more effectively with that audience as well. Yeah. And easier to, Yeah, easier to have empathy, um, for them and compassion. Sure, absolutely. So, um, yeah, I mean my, my show now is on Create a Life You Love Living Now, but in the beginning season it was, Facing adversity and moving forward.

And then I changed it to facing adversity moving forward and discovering ourselves along the way. [00:41:00] So I’ve interviewed quite a bit of number of guests on the adversity that they faced and how they move forward from it. Yeah. And every single one has said that they wouldn’t, you know, wouldn’t change it.

It’s made them who they are. Yep. Um, what, why do you think you have that attitude? I can tell you do, but.

Um,

you know, as I’ve evolved and many of us have, there’s, there’s now this, this all the topics that we’re talking about, self-awareness, skill sets, yada, yada. For example, one of my claims to fame in sales, It comes from the matrix realization that I had in traveling to dozens of offices a year, which I think we have a typo in the intro.

I’ve actually coached over 50,000 people. Wow, okay. And over 400 organizations. [00:42:00] Um, but, um, you know, for example, during one of my evictions, my second eviction, which all happened during the 2008, Um, there was this day where Mr. Tough guy over here was preparing to leave his apartment. Um, my roommate had billed already.

He was going through tough times and I had all these things to pack and all this overwhelming, and families already chit chattering about it and friends are disappearing left and right. And so there was this moment where I was, you know, taking a shower and I went from Mr. Tough guy to like buckling at the knees and being in tears for like 20 minutes in the.

And so the water turned cold. It’s a very symbolic story of mine and it, I call it the cold shower, and when the water turned cold, it was that same nose. A few minutes later when I realized, I said, You know what? The real source of a lot of my setbacks right now is, most of my success only comes from when everything is perfect in my.

The economy’s booming. The industry’s booming. The marketing’s great. The life is [00:43:00] great, you know, every, like we just came out of for the past three to five years at least economically. And um, I said the bottom line is if you’re gonna be a coach, cuz I was already two years into my coaching career, you have to develop your skillset way beyond what it was that you were known for two years.

You have to become so good at what you are doing, that it is unquestionable that when you sit down and you speak with other professionals that you understand and you provide value. And it was that eviction, that scenario that led me to a path where I very quickly started to realize that 95% of language patterns in all industries are the.

And most customers become resistant because of the wording that you use has been handed down in your industry for too long. Mm. And then it caused me to study linguistics very heavily where I was able to rewrite these entire sales process for [00:44:00] dozens of companies helping to double or triple their production.

Wow. Had I not had that tipping point moment, I would’ve never thought to go. Recognize these patterns and listen to all these calls and, you know what I’m saying? Study linguistics. Yeah. . Yeah. So it’s just funny how it, it some, somehow, you know, it, it triggers you to think on a level that you may not have ever thought.

And as I’ve said before, and you’ve said before and probably many people have said, would’ve said, I said pain is a unior versus way of getting me to make important decisions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, so what does it mean to you to live a life that you love living? What, what makes you love your life? I was hoping you would tell me , , It’s different for everybody.

Uh, yeah, it’s different in, in the, the, the most recent, um, phase of my life. , and I’m gonna go deep on this one. It’s being, it’s being able to know that something [00:45:00] that was just an idea in my head one day that I was frustrated, that I wasn’t even sure if myself and my peers knew how to develop our sales teams properly.

I was like, Do we know how to develop, just cuz I got the title doesn’t know. I know how to develop people, , Uh, I’m like, have we ever been through leadership courses? Do we even know what tr right? And, and so forth? So for a long. , you know, for about the past decade or more, it was, I was completely content with the friendship circle I had and the impact that I was having in the business community, you know, and then your life changes and you go through phases.

Mm-hmm. . And so now I know that that same thing that used to be fulfilling on its own now can sometimes include alar, a larger level of loneliness that I’m prepared. . And so there’s different types of companionship and new things that I’m exploring now. Last, as you mentioned, it’s time to diversify. Mm-hmm.

my priorities a little bit. Mm-hmm. , uh, you [00:46:00] know, and and so forth. So I think it would have to come back again, like listening to your heart. Yeah. And see if you can figure out, you know, what area of progress, what area of your life needs progress, so that you can stay on top of that. Um, that journey and, and instead of looking for that destination Yeah, one of my one, Yeah.

The journey. And, uh, one of my coaches talks about, um, notice what you’re noticing, which is to listen to that voice and notice how you’re feeling and what gives you like excitement and what and what doesn’t. Um, what was I gonna say? She says, Notice what you’re noticing. And then, um, I don’t know, it just slipped from my head, but, you know, that’s a big thing.

Just notice. Oh, and notice your longings in discontent. Mm-hmm. . And I think sometimes we notice our longings in discontent and we might think, Well, that’s just the way it is. I can’t really make a change. You know, it’s, it’s, um, yeah, I don’t like my job, but I just gotta stick with it. But what if you didn’t have to?

What if there was another way? And I think [00:47:00] sometimes we just get stuck thinking in a certain pattern and believing the thoughts that come to us instead of getting curious and, and looking at some other options. Yeah. You know, you’ve, you mentioned that you’ve, you know, raised a family and I’m sure, cuz I don’t have children and I’ve never been married.

Mm-hmm. , um, I’m sure there were times where you couldn’t just wake up in the morning and be like, I’m just gonna go explore whatever I want to do. Right. Right. Because you have to support people. I did that. Yeah. I had to do that. I had, Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. So you might be in a season. Yeah. You can’t, You gotta suck it up and do what you gotta do.

Mm-hmm. . But maybe, hopefully with the outcome in mind that you know, time will pass by and eventually I’ll get to venture out. Uh, and do things, you know, and, and the seasons have become so important to so many people. Uh, you know, in recognizing those seasons and the things that you said were so powerful, the noticing, the noticing.

Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, those [00:48:00] types of things. And there’s a lot of popular messages out there. I call ’em like the Gary V type messages. Like, if you’re not happy, what you’re doing, and I’m like, Well listen. Um, you know, my parents moved here from another country. Yeah. And I’m sure. , my father would’ve loved to stay in carpentry.

Mm-hmm. had an artist in it, but that wasn’t paying the bills. Mm-hmm. and so he had to go work for Caterpillar tractor third shift. For 10 years, , you know? Yeah. And so forth. He didn’t wake up in the morning and say, You know, this is the dream job of my life. He was probably thinking, I’m happy that I have this job so that I can take care of the people I needed to take care of.

I agree. Yeah. He didn’t have this freedom, but I’m sure at one point in time, you know, um, then maybe these days you don’t have to wait until retirement by any means. But then there was a point where he didn’t have to work anymore, you know, and he was going fishing all the time and hanging out with [00:49:00] friends and, you know, just kind of.

Doing stuff and, and yada yada. So I think a person, there’s so much out there that you don’t like your job and you’re not happy and you’re not doing what you’re destined to do. Doesn’t sometimes take into consideration that what you’re doing right now might be what you’re supposed to be doing right now, right?

But take into consideration you know, what direction you’d like to go in, right? And maybe there’s some little things that you could do in your life to make it more something that you love. I mean, you might have to keep pushing through in that job, but there’s, you know, maybe some other things that you could do that would make your life a little bit more enjoyable.

You know, I find out when people get stressed about money or providing or this and that, there’s, this is kind of on the topic, but sometimes I’ll sit somebody down and I’ll be like, What did you do for fun before? Mm-hmm. . And they’ll be like, Oh, I don’t know. I’m like, Come on, come on, come on. You gotta have something.

And, Oh, I used to play tennis. I’m like, [00:50:00] When was the last time you played tennis? Yeah. I’m like, how long does it take to play a tennis match? You know, I promise you, you’re gonna fall on the floor after three hours, . Yeah. And it just, it just, when you exercise, it just gets you, you know, it help, it helps, you know, take some of the pressure off of the other areas of your life that you may not enjoy so much.

We just get, we just get up, go to the, you know, do the same thing every day. Maybe, you know, I had one of my guests. Every three months, she tries out something new, you know, a new experience or something like that. So, you know, expose ourselves to, you know, new experiences. If you’re, instead of going to the gym every day, if it’s a beautiful day, take a walk outside.

I don’t know, we just get stuck in our rut, , I know myself and many others, you know when you have, when, when you have certain set of responsibilities, obligations, or promises that you’ve made to people, sometimes you can feel guilty. , um, or obligated, you know, to not do those [00:51:00] things. Yeah. Um, that no, you should be doing something for this other cause that you have, and you could probably go a little ways with that.

Um, but I think, you know, if people don’t have the luxury as just jumping out of their industry or their job and doing whatever they wanna do, no. Yeah. Probably the next best thing to start, at least including a couple hours a week or even an hour a week, was something that you do really enjoy or that you used to do, or.

Yeah, whatever that looks like to you. I completely agree. Yep. So, okay. So let’s see. I’ve got some places here where people can reach out to you. You’re on Facebook. Yeah. Um, and also on Instagram and, and also on LinkedIn, which I think I shared, and I’ll put this in the show notes when I publish it as a podcast.

But where are you mostly on Instagram and Linked. Let’s say Instagram, LinkedIn. We do have a, a private community now of about 800 members on Facebook. That’s primarily for the mortgage community. Okay. Um, yeah, but, [00:52:00] um, Instagram, LinkedIn, um, and, uh, you know, I’m still that guy who loves getting random messages from people.

You know, I’ll, I’ll make time to check ’em and so on and so forth. I do have a team that helps with some of the formal stuff, you know, as you know, it’s important. But those are the best places to reach out to me. And right now I’m racing around like today. Um, I was physically inside of three companies today.

Wow, starting at eight 30 and then, um, race back home to jump in the studio with you. But, um, there’s tons of changes happening in the economy right now. There’s all types of new opportunity. There’s also all types of challenges out there. Right now I’m involved in a lot of emerging industries, not just the finance world.

I’m involved in green energy, solar. Um, the illegal space, you know, different financial verticals, uh, and so forth. So sometimes people just reach out and they’re like, Look, I’m looking for something to get into. I’m not feeling it where I’m at. What would you recommend I do? So even if somebody just wants a recommendation, like, you know, show me [00:53:00] the way, or show me the money, I’m happy to share some of my thoughts with them as well.

That’s awesome. Great. Thank you so much for being my guest tonight, Joe. Thank you. I really enjoyed it and uh, you know, like I said, you’re my last guest for a while. Thanks, . I feel like , I kind of feel lucky in a way, you know? Fortunate. Well, yeah. So thank you again Emily. Thank you for, I’m literally just got to know you.

Yeah, I know. I, I feel the needs really, really thank you deeply for everything and all the things that you’ve probably done in the past 20 years for others and even within your own family. So thank you for that. Thanks Joe. And thank you for everybody who showed up tonight and watched. And for those of you who listened to this as podcast, we usually have more listeners, uh, that listen to it as a podcast than show up live.

But I appreciate everybody that showed up tonight. Um, I know that. It’s a Wednesday night and you got other stuff to do. So thanks for joining us. And Joe, I’ll just put you in the green room for a second and play [00:54:00] the outro. Got it.

Thank you all. I’ll see you uh, next week for one last show. Onward Live is sponsored by Emily Harmon Coaching and Consulting. Visit my website emily harmon.com to learn more about me and my coaching program. I’d love to help you create a life you love living. Remember, every adversity is our own personal university.

Sometimes the lessons are difficult. And we must learn from our experiences. Vulnerability is your superpower. You are lovable and worthy, and we discuss these topics and more because professional is personal. Thank you for joining us and engaging with me and my guest. I.