Becoming Body Joyful

[00:00:00] you’re a certified, intuitive eating counselor, a body confidence coach and eating disorder specialist and an author.

And we talked about your book, but these are all things that you coach people on. My own journey, took me back to school to learn a different way because I was in fitness for 30 years. You know, my journey with my body didn’t end at the end of my anorexia. NIOSA when I was, you know, 15, it stayed with me.

It wasn’t and eating disorder per se for much of my life. But. Disordered thinking body dysmorphia and the obsessiveness around exercise and food and eating mm-hmm took a, took a run for the money I would binge and purge exercise purging in periods of time, usually in periods of time of stress

welcome to onward. Live a live stream, focused on encouraging you to [00:01:00] create a life you love living. Now let’s go beyond success to significance, being clear on our why is crucial. It requires doing the inner work. Finding ourselves getting to know ourselves, embracing our inner child, shedding social conditioning, and letting go of perfect.

We know obstacles make us stronger. We can dream big and take action. Believe you can. And you’re halfway there. I invite you to tune in every week and engage with me and my inspiring guests. Invite your friends. Let’s make time for what matters most in our lives. Let’s move on together.

Hello? Hello. I don’t know how many people are gonna watch tonight or this afternoon, cuz this is kind of an impromptu onward live. And the reason is because on Wednesday night when I went live with Anne, [00:02:00] the sound didn’t work out too well. I take responsibility for that. I learned a little bit about why that might have happened, so we just decided, Hey.

Let’s just rerecord it. I want the podcast when I publish it as a podcast on apple podcaster, Google play. I want it to sound right. And so does Anne. So that’s why we’re here again today. And I get to have a second conversation about Anne. We’re talking about becoming body joyful. So let me bring her.

Welcome Anne. Oh, well, hello, Emily. Thank you for let’s do it again and give it a try and see how it goes this time. And it was a great conversation the first time. So I know, I just know it’s gonna be great this time too. Yeah, it is. So tell us a little bit about your story. Why are you so interested in becoming body joyful and helping others do the same?

Well, body joyful is a fun word, right? And I think. Lot of us [00:03:00] don’t feel joyful in our bodies due to society and due to the way we brought up and due to everything that’s around us all the time. And I think that there’s a real struggle for young girls too, when it comes to how they look in their bodies.

And so my own journey was a lot like that. Not liking myself at all. So the subtitle of my book, the body joyful is. My journey from self-loathing to self-acceptance and really finding a way. To appreciate and like my body and allow myself to do that as well against the odds of what I have believed in the past.

Well, it’s so interesting. I mean, when you were born, you weren’t as a little baby, you weren’t like, I don’t like my body. You were like, look at my fingers. This is so exciting. When you were two and three, you probably, you know, loved your body. What, what happens to us where we like. You know, we don’t like our body anymore.

That does so much for us. I know. And I [00:04:00] think it really has to do with our environment. Right. And the people that we grow up with, whether it’s family or friends or teachers or coaches, and just the words that happen to be speak spoken around, you know, around us. And so for me, the very. Thing. I remember my parents talking about is that I was a chubby little baby.

So I was adopted, so they got me when I was four months old and that’s how they described me. And that’s how to this day they would describe me the same way. Oh, the chubby little Ann. So that was kind of the start of. Absorbing and taking in that message for me. So, right. And you may not have been aware that because you know, now as an adult, you, you can question that, but as a child, it just comes in and we absorb it and it becomes part of us.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just continued to kind of move in that direction [00:05:00] for me and my home. So my dad and mom were always weighing themselves on the scale. So I knew that that was important. And my brother who was adopted as well looked exactly the opposite of me, right? Mm. So tall and thin and freckles and blue eyes and blonde hair.

And so, you know, there’s this little bit of I’m just not quite. Fitting in here to this mold. Yeah. And it was really the, the nickname. And we talked about that Wednesday night that my brother and his buddies talked about they started calling me Annie Fannie farmer. And just because of, I think the, the implanting of this knowledge that my body was different.

It was bigger than the other kids in my class, that kind of thing. And I just took that in like Fanny, Fanny, fat Fanny. and that I held onto that. And the next thing you know, my whole life was been really, I’ve had struggle around my body and my body image, and that led to [00:06:00] eating issues and exercise issues.

And. A whole gamut of things. Well, I mean, we talked about on the last, on the last show that you kind of thinking of some things we talked about and I shared, you know, when we talk about eating issues, I shared that around candy. I scarf it down. And I think the reason stems back to my childhood, where we weren’t allowed to have candy and.

At Halloween, I would have my friends take the candy to school and I would Cho down on it there. And so I guess I still, you know, subconsciously feel like I’ve gotta eat it all right now. So it stems back from my childhood. My daughter can have a box of. good and plenties and give me two and I’m like, I want the whole box and I just wanna throw them all down my throat.

And it’s, it’s so painful for me to just get two at a time. So, yeah. And for you, you had, why don’t you share some of your issues you had with eating cuz [00:07:00] yours were his ears were More dangerous to your, to your body than mine. I mean, I’ve had some teeth issues, but yeah. Yeah. The, the first kind of diet I went on.

Just due to the fact that I knew I wasn’t, I didn’t look right. And you start to hear those things in fifth and sixth grade, you start to hear what’s happening around you. I, I do believe it’s worse now. I think it there’s more talk about it now than there was when I was in, you know, in that, in those grades 10, 11, 12, Exactly.

They have it. It’s 24 7 for them now. And it, and it just wasn’t like that for us. Mm-hmm it was more magazines. You know, my mom was a avid magazine reader, so she was always had had magazines in the house. So there were magazines and things like that. But my first kind of diet, I just slowly stopped.

Eating very much everything shrunk down. I was at school. I barely ate it all. You know, I would eat something in the morning just to appease my parents and [00:08:00] then a little bit move my food around kind of play with my food at night, just to make sure that they saw me eating and slowly, I started to kind of Whitle away in front of them and ended up with anorexia or Noosa and in the hospital eventually due to that in the seventies, early, early, before a lot of people knew what that was.

Yeah. You said it was just a few years before Karen Carpenter got sick with that. Yeah. Mm-hmm so, and that was, that was the, kind of the start of my self-loathing and, and issues with food plus exercise. That was a, a combination, cuz that when I was. 11 and 12, you know, I remember distinctly doing sit ups in my room and having to do more the next night, if I did so many of the first night, you know, that compulsiveness mm-hmm around, around exercise.

So a lot of those kind of behaviors were part of my, my disease went during that time. Yeah. And that that’s [00:09:00] gotta be so tough on a, on a parent, too. Mm. For your parents to go through that and your brother. Yeah, for sure. And I do write a little bit in the book around that journey with my brother and my parents, and I do.

Believe because of just the journey that I took, writing the book, right. And, and stepping back from my life and writing a timeline of my body and a timeline of everything, realizing that I really stepped into being a good girl. I. After mm-hmm I cuz I knew that I, I had caused pain and suffering for everybody in the family and I did want, yeah, that takes a lot of guilt on you too.

right. And I think that a lot of, a lot of, I know a lot of girls and a lot of women that I’ve worked with have had this kind of this good girl syndrome don’t wanna get in trouble, you know, with their parents and, and right. Really make some kind of always not so great decisions. Trying to [00:10:00] be that good girl.

Mm-hmm . Yeah. So, and we, we talked about too on a Wednesday that I wanna bring it up again, is that A lot of times we think, you know, body image issues are with people who are overweight mm-hmm . And one of the things I shared was about my daughter and how she was very thin. I think naturally, and I think from, you know, some of it is maybe some invisible illnesses that she has that contribute to that, but that when she was working at Starbucks you know, people would say to her, you need to eat a burger.

Mm, and that really upset her. And then she has some cousins who were picking on her. Like, you know, here’s a piece of spinach, you know, that Anna’s eating or whatever. So whether you. Tall short, thick, thin whatever. I think we all have these body image issues. And another thing that I wanted to share is when I was a freshman at the Naval academy, I was five eleven, a hundred forty pounds.

And what’s in my record is getting prescribed, ensures that I, [00:11:00] cuz I wanted to gain weight and I couldn’t gain weight. I eat so much junk. I couldn’t gain weight. I don’t have that problem. Now I can gain weight easily, but it’s like, I wasn’t happy with my body then. And you know, perhaps you, if you were around me at that time, you would’ve been like, well, what’s there to not be happy about.

Right. exactly. And it, it really is our own perception. Right? Yeah. And what we believe to be true about bodies mm-hmm and seeing other bodies and having a real. Strong belief around what’s kind of quote, unquote a right body and what, what is a wrong body? And where does that come from for each person is going to be very individual, right.

And you can’t cuz people would say to me and I, I, you know, I own my privilege for sure. Because I am in a smaller body and I would always say, yes, I. So, I don’t know certain things that happen on either end of the spectrum. Right. And I also know the way that I talk to myself and the way that I [00:12:00] look at myself in the mirror was very similar to people of all size bodies, right?

Yeah. And I think the other side of that, which we didn’t touch on on Wednesday night was that we all know people in large bodies who are very healthy. Yeah. And people in small bodies who are very healthy and the same thing goes with unhealthy mm-hmm . So, you know, there’s a stigma, unfortunately for either, either end of the spectrum again, right.

That they’re not healthy. And how can we. Take away the body size and shape and look deeper at what’s going on. And what’s the behaviors. How do they behave and how do they eat and how do they move? And all the other things that go along with who we are rather than just the number on the scale. Yeah, I think some of that’s changing in terms of, in magazines, you see people of all different sizes shapes and colors now modeling.

[00:13:00] And so I think that’s awesome. And I think on the runway, they’ve got some, you know, not all of them are really, really thin now. I mean, it is changing. People have been speaking out about it and raising awareness about it. So that’s definitely good. That is a very good thing. And that, that does make me very happy that at least we’re seeing that progression in the body positivity, right.

And body, they calling it body positivity and body liberation and then body neutrality and having a kind of a weaving that there are, there are different landing spots for how you feel in your body. Yeah. It doesn’t have to be love. or hate. Right. that’s true. So one of the things I think that you cover in your book is about journaling and then also maybe some mirror work.

Maybe you want, describe that. Yeah, for sure. I think the mirror work is so hard and someone has to be ready for that too. You know, there’s, there’s. Work in progress. [00:14:00] As we move towards mirror work, it’s really important to have some appreciation for the body’s function. First, before we step into the mirror and start to, to look at ourselves in the mirror and start to see ourselves differently.

Mm-hmm so we have to kind of think about. Our bodies a little differently first, and then we’re able to actually see and perceive our bodies. So how do we change the way we think about our bodies, then? How do we get to that point? Well, I think it’s such a, it’s such a great question. And the first, my first work is really about what has your body listing down?

What has your body done for you and what are those things that it does today? And a lot of times people can’t. It does nothing like it. They don’t see it for what it does. Got it. And part of the journey with that is really the senses. And we talked about that, you know, like the touch sense and the sight sense, you know, the wonderful sunrises or [00:15:00] sunsets that we see, you know, and to hug our, our children and the touch of a hug and the warmth of a hug.

And you know, some of these things that don’t take physical. This, they are just part of who we are and how can we start to see, I think about our bodies as vehicles and these amazing extraordinary vehicles that do all kinds of things. Once we pause and put the brakes on the negative self talk and start to become appreciative.

I mean, we don’t even really learn that much about our body. Like what do the kidneys do? Or what are, you know, all the things that we have. And it’s like, we, it seems like we only learn about ’em when we get sick yes. When something’s not working and then we’re like, oh, well, that’s, I guess that’s a really important part of my body.

right. And isn’t it true that when we get sick, once we start to get better, again, we go, wow. I forget how it feels, you know, to feel. Yeah, because then we just grab hold of it and are [00:16:00] so happy that we’re feeling good again. Yeah. Like when my back hurts, you know, when your back hurts or even when you have a paper cut on your thumb, mm-hmm that when you have that paper cut it, you really start to realize all the times you use your thumb, right.

Or you really start to realize, you know, all the times. Back helps you lift get in and outta bed, get up and off the toilet, you know, all the things that it helps you do. , it’s so true. We don’t notice until we can’t until we do notice because there’s something wrong. Yeah. And and that’s, so that’s a lot of the starting point is, is starting to really take a, a different look at our, our body as a whole.

Because it’s really, we’ve gotten narrow focused about our bodies. We’ve only, we only see the parts we hate. Yeah. And focus on that. And that just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Yeah. What you focus on mm-hmm what your, what your mind goes to. Yeah. So starting with the journaling and with working with the coach, [00:17:00] perhaps to help you see different ways of looking at your body, different perspectives, mm-hmm and a coach might in a good way challenge.

You know, well, what else could be true? You know? Yes, absolutely. And you see things that you wouldn’t normally see on your. Yeah. And that’s what you do, right? Because you’re a I don’t think I have it on it, but I got your website. You are a , you’re a certified, intuitive eating counselor, a body confidence coach and eating disorder specialist and an author.

And we talked about your book, but these are all things that you coach people on. My own journey, took me back to school to learn a different way because I was in fitness for 30 years. You know, my journey with my body didn’t end at the end of my anorexia. NIOSA when I was, you know, 15, it stayed with me.

It wasn’t and eating disorder per se for much of my life. [00:18:00] But. Disordered thinking body dysmorphia and the obsessiveness around exercise and food and eating mm-hmm took a, took a run for the money I would binge and purge exercise purging in periods of time, usually in periods of time of stress mm-hmm right.

So when stress was high, went through a divorce and when stress was high, boy was I right back into eating disorder behavior. And so paying attention to our thoughts and our feelings about our situations. And we talked about the other night when the mic wasn’t working and, you know, I started sweating.

You started sweating, we’re live on and you know, first, somebody, it might, you, you might be starting to feel like I gotta go eat something and eating. Something’s not gonna really make that anxiety go away. but, you know, for somebody else, it might be, I gotta go drink something. For me, my [00:19:00] addiction, and I didn’t really realize it was kind of an addiction is busyness mm-hmm

So I stay really busy as a way to avoid my feelings. And and so we all have something that we kind of cling to and being aware of it is the first step to healing and to making some healthy changes in our lives. Yeah. And what does the, what does that for you? What triggers you towards those things and becoming aware?

The emotions that we never really learned how to manage our emotions. No, we just didn’t even know how to name ’em right. It’s like, well, first off it’s like go to time out or you get and think about what you did. So you beat yourself up and time out, right? Yep. Yeah. And then I think it was BNE brown did an interview with the someone who wrote a book called permission to feel.

I mean, that’s one of the reasons I retired. I, I like, I wanted to work on myself. I knew that I didn’t even know how to name my feelings. Happy and sad. That’s about it. And I started working with a, a coach and she’d ask, well, what do [00:20:00] you feel about that? I’m like nothing. I don’t know. I know what I think.

Right, right. But we’ve gotta what we think causes how we feel. And when, and like one of my guests, I say, I find like, I feel like I say this a lot on my show. One of my guests, previous guests said, when you shove your feelings down to the basement, they lift weights. Mm-hmm and they’re gonna come out. And I shove mine all down when I was busy, working, being single parent.

And they all came out when my children’s father passed away three years ago. And and I learned how to feel them all. And not ignore them, not shove them down. It’s hard to sit there in the moment and feel it mm-hmm , but that’s how you heal. It’s so true. And it is hard. And to acknowledge that it’s hard mm-hmm and to acknowledge in my mother’s favorite saying this too, shall pass.

And to really understand that our emotions good or bad, hard, or easy, they all will come and. Yeah. And you know, the ones that we [00:21:00] don’t like, those are the ones that we don’t wanna. That’s why we have that go to whatever that might be. And that might change over time. Yeah. Too. Right. As we, as we continue to, to not feel our feelings.

Yeah. And so part of the work that we need to do is to feel and learn how to feel and be okay with feeling. And naming emotions, right? Yeah. So, yeah, practice naming ’em. I have a sheet with all the different names of different emotions. So sometimes if I, like, I don’t even know, but I’ll look at that sheet, but I’ve been reading, I read this book called untethered soul, and then there’s another book called living untethered.

And those are really good books. And it’s all about how that energy of those feelings stays in our body. If we don’t let it out. Michael singer, I think is the author. And he was just being interviewed on a podcast. And apparently he’s not very often, but it was, it was cool because it was right around the time that [00:22:00] the shooting in Texas had happened with the kids.

And so it’s like, how do you feel those feelings? And then let them go. Isn’t mm-hmm , doesn’t that cause guilt for, for letting them go. I mean, You know, but he said you can feel them and you can feel sad. And, but if you kind of wallow in it, or if you. I don’t, I, I’m not gonna explain it exactly how he did, but if you just let those, those feelings stay stuck in you, then that stuck energy and it’s not doing the situation any good.

You’re not in any place to go take action to, you know, on what your position is on gun control or whatever. You’re not in any place to do that. You’re just sitting there depressed. So how do you let those feelings feel them? Name them, let them flow through you, but not get stuck in your body. Right. And I do think that.

Like for me a lot of times, and it does have to do with like leaving the kids when they get older and you, and you’re leaving, you’ve been with them for a little while and you’re [00:23:00] leaving and I, you know, I will, I will hurt my heart will hurt. Mm-hmm right. And so I actually talk to myself. It’s okay. Your heart can hurt and I, and up crying and my heart hurts.

I know, you know, and that’s okay. But it’s, it’s that allowing for, for the feels right. Mm-hmm, allowing for the feels one of the phrase that I heard, which I thought was so great is that pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. Yeah. Right. And we can, and, and it’s okay to sit in suffering for a little while.

Mm-hmm and it’s okay to. Okay. I can come out of that now, right? Yeah. It’s, it’s all in that awareness and it’s hard and it’s not easy and you have to have patience and learn it, you know, and sometimes having somebody sit with you through those hard feelings can be very helpful. Yeah. You know, to validate and, and be there with, with you.

Right. And I had a guest on my show. We were talking [00:24:00] about yoga mm-hmm and he talked about how yoga can help you with overeating. He said, because really what it is is it’s mindfulness. Right? We can go to the refrigerator, open the refrigerator. I can do this, you know, eat a whole half gallon of ice cream without even realizing it.

But if we’ve practiced mindfulness, if we’ve trained our brain to be in the present moment, mm-hmm and. To notice one of like, one of my coaches says, notice what you’re noticing mm-hmm right. I’m noticing that I’m going to the refrigerator to get this ice cream out at two in the afternoon or at two in the morning.

Right. What are my thoughts and what am I really feeling and taking that break. And that’s with yoga or mindfulness practice, like in the area where I coach positive intelligence, mental fitness coaching, you can create new neural pathways in your brain to enable you to just not automatically react and go get that food and to really [00:25:00] think and be, and if you decide consciously.

I’m having this ice cream then have it. Right, right. It’s not about depriving yourself. Right? Exactly. And then not feel guilty after having it right. Because it was a conscious decision it’s conscious decision. Yes. I, and I agree a hundred percent with that and thinking about how easy it is to have some of those thoughts automatic.

Right. Mm-hmm , it’s, they’ve just, they’ve worn the path. So worn down. That they’re almost unconscious thoughts. Yes. Right? Mm-hmm and it becomes the truth and that’s who I am. And this is what I always do. And I’ll never be able to not be able to now I’ll never be able to not be able to do it if that made sense, but that’s yeah.

That’s how strong they get. And to know that you can pause and slow them down and take some deep breath, be deep breaths and become more grounded and know that you’re taking six steps. To get the ice cream [00:26:00] out with a spoon in your hand, before you even, you know, put it in your mouth, that there are, you know, I call them chain links, right.

And how can we break one of the chain links? It can be any one of them with that pause and just by pausing long enough, that’s where you can take that breath and make a conscious decision. Maybe drink some water or call a friend or. A journal. I don’t know. But yeah, it, it, it’s not easy. Like, I mean, some people might look at me and say, well, you’re thin you don’t have these problems.

Okay. Well, one day my nephew posted frosted mini weeds on Facebook, and I happened to live in an apartment in DC, above Harris Teeter. My mouth started watering. That’s my favorite cereal. My mouth started watering. I got dressed. I went downstairs. I walked around to the grocery store. I had to get milk and the cereal and the whole time I, I, I finally just made a conscious [00:27:00] decision.

Yes, I’m getting this, but I mean, it was really, I could just feel. the addiction to the sugar actually. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Right. And then there’s that I think it’s you made a conscious DEC decision to, to have it right? I did. And then there’s there’s what else? Ha what else goes with that? And to be okay with the fact that, all right, if you didn’t do it, how long would you continue?

To be thinking about it. I don’t think we always realize sometimes the best thing. If you’ve been thinking about the same food for three days, how much energy and time is being taken up by that thought process, that thought process, right? What other things can you be doing with your thoughts and right your time?

So, and this was like four years ago. It was before I had done some work on myself. So I, I probably. There’s some feelings underlying there that I couldn’t even name. I, I, I was not prepared to even go there, so I’ve come a long way, but that’s just an example [00:28:00] of, of that. And then, you know, you said that you can change.

I used to think I’m, I’m busy all the time and it’s because of my job. Well, when I retired and I didn’t have a quote unquote job, I was my own boss. I was busier than ever. So I realized, oh, I have nowhere else to point, but me mm-hmm . And so. Busyness, like I said was my way of avoiding my feelings. And you can change if anybody, if I could change from being busy, to being more calm and relaxed in the moment, not perfect at it.

I would say anyone can, cuz I have a really strong, hyper achiever restless, always on the go SA saboteur in my brain. And that’s kind of how my mom was. That’s how I was conditioned when I was growing up. It was like, do so. Gotta be doing something. Yeah. You might have gotten trouble for sitting down, not doing anything waiting time.

right. Exactly. What are you doing? She didn’t mean anything bad by it, but that’s just what I picked up. You gotta be productive. Yes. Yes. And it’s so interesting because [00:29:00] that’s, that’s exactly what we were talking about is these are our beliefs that this is, this is, this is who I am. I am. And they’re so strong.

We don’t even think that we could challenge those beliefs. Yes. We could see it in other people. Yes, you know, but it’s very hard to see it in ourselves. Yeah. And can you, can you, and are you willing, right? Are you willing to question yourself around some of these behaviors because they do feel more comfortable.

They are familiar. They work for you. Yeah. Until they don’t work anymore. What are some Maha moments that you’ve seen your clients experience? Oh, just the, the aha of being able to make a rational decision in that space. You know, we talk about one of my favorite quotes is Victor Frankels between stimulus and response as a space.

And in that space is where we can actually make different choices and decisions and stuff. And how do we just continue to widen that space? Mm-hmm so to, to have somebody [00:30:00] tell me, oh my gosh, I was actually in the freezer looking and all of a sudden I’m like, what am I, you know, what am I doing and how that is a like a revelation.

Am I hungry? Am I, do I want this? Or is this where, what do I even feel what’s happening? And so she shut it and she’s just stepped outside and started to just have that conversation with herself. What’s going on? What am I feeling? What do I need in this moment? Right. And then we can kind of, we can reverse engineer what was happening in the moment.

That, that just, that action just started and that’s, that’s great. Aha. Awareness that happens. Oh, sure. Right. Yeah. And then another one, which I think is really fascinating is a response to a daughter right. Where she didn’t respond the way she normally would respond to her daughter around something.[00:31:00] 

And the, the next, our next session, she just said, I just noticed myself, look and breathe. And nod my head and then just turn and walk away because it wasn’t mine to it. Wasn’t mine to jump into. Yeah. And how, how your own mindfulness can really impact your family. It’s not just you it’s those around you, right?

Yeah. Sometimes we think it it’s been challenging for me to let my grown kids go. Right. I’m a single parent, you know, their dad passed away. I mean, but they’re 29 and 26 and sometimes I still. Take some of their challenges on when I don’t need to. And so I wasn’t always aware of it. I had a coach help me, like with some specific examples of, oh yeah.

I guess that’s another way of looking at it. It’s not mine to take on. It’s not my story. It’s not my life. Right. Right. And I did see your interview with your son and how wonderful I [00:32:00] just, my heart was so warm, but how wonderful that conversation was and how you both are learning from each other at this point.

And see, I get teary. I get really emotional because that was because that was so it’s so great when you can change yourself. And I think about this with my daughters. I was not a good role. Around food or weight or body. And now we can have these amazing conversations around body image and they have a whole different outlook on their bodies and who they are.

And I see their confidence. That’s awesome. I see themselves feeling, you know, this is my body. And these are the things it can do and not getting caught up in all of the other are, you know, are they perfect? No, they have their, you know, their anxiety with things and certain, but the, but the body piece is not usually one of ’em it’s something else that kind of trips that up.

Mm-hmm so, and I, I do think it’s because of the fact that that [00:33:00] we’ve been able to talk about it. That’s awesome. And I, you know, and I’ve been able to own, I was like, yeah, Those aren’t good behaviors. yeah. Right. And so then I don’t know if they have kids, but then ideally it won’t get passed on to their children.

Right, right. You’re stopping the chain. Yes. And isn’t, that’s really, I think when I, when I think about my mission with all of this is really to start. To change the conversation around weight and food and bodies so that we can break this chain a little bit. You know, I think we mentioned last time that, that the eating disorder rate has increased tremendously, you know, the last couple of years since the pandemic and how that’s concerning for, for children.

Because that’s where the increase is happening between eight, believe it or not. Wow. And 16. And so we just, you know, how can we really start to change how they’re seeing themselves at 8, 9, 10? [00:34:00] You know, and, and changing that, that conversation and the way that they can see themselves. So how, how, how can we do that?

I mean, how do you do it? You do it through your clients. Are there other ways that you do it as well? I, I talk about it a lot. So and this is one of the things that I think is in the show notes is the body joyful revolution, which is a free. Facebook community. It’s a private Facebook community 18 and older.

And it’s really a place where we’re changing the conversation around bodies in hopes to have role models for our next generations to come that are seeing themselves different. Who can look in the mirror. and say that they’re beautiful or that their body is so strong and that look at my arms, they can do this and look at my legs that they can do this.

And you know that it’s okay to have a belly and this is what it does. And these are the things that it’s, it, it works for. Right. And, and to allow some of the looking at themselves differently, cuz kids. [00:35:00] You know, we know they’ll look and they see everything they see when we look in the mirror, right.

They see when we’re pulling at our clothes or, or TA saying no to certain foods and saying, this is bad. I can’t eat that or whatnot. They, they take that all in and they do so, so I mean, I know that your target audience is, is women, but do you, do men have some body image issues as well? Or is it mostly women?

Oh, for sure. For sure. And I, I. Even more so now it was not it was not okay to come out as having an eating disorder as a male years ago. Mm-hmm , it is now more accessible to get help or, or they’re able to get help. So I think it can run the gamut gamut along sexes and sex orientation and all those things.

I think it’s a it’s. It’s across the board. So that’s, that’s [00:36:00] part of what is our mission to try to make sure that we have, that we know that it can it’s, it can happen to anyone, you know, so it’s not just a, and it used to be thought of when I had my disorder in the seventies, it used to be thought of as quote unquote you know, a white girl’s disease and it was, you know, And that middle class white girl.

And that was what, that was what it was thought of as, because those are the people that were able to afford help or were the ones that were kind of coming out for help. And now we just know that. It doesn’t discriminate. Doesn’t discriminate. No, you know, eating disorders don’t discriminate. And I think that’s important for people to know.

Yeah. Yeah. Great. So a Facebook user, I can’t tell who it is. I’m wondering if it’s Kelly Ballantine, but I don’t know a lot of times it is, but she says, or he, hi. Hello. This is kind of an impromptu interview because the last one we did the [00:37:00] sound didn’t work out too well. So we decided, just do it again on Friday afternoon.

So why not? why not? Thank you for joining us. Yeah. Yeah. So, and you have a an Instagram, I’m gonna put it up here and you go on there quite a bit with just some short videos. Mm-hmm, encouraging your followers about like everyday life things. What are some of the things that you talk about there?

Well, one of the things hi Jenny, it’s a, it’s hard Jenny. It’s Jenny. Hi, Jenny. Jenny Cole. Hi Jenny. Yeah. One of the things that I just spoke about was this willingness, because a lot of times we say, I want, I want to do this and I want to do that. And when I do this, then I’ll do that. Right. I call that the one I Ben I game, but are you willing to do some of the work that it takes to.

Get whatever that is that you want. And that’s a different way of saying it. It’s a, it, you hear it differently. Yeah. I am willing right. To go outside and take a walk. Oh, I wanna take a walk. Oh, it’s too hot. And then, you [00:38:00] know, mm-hmm, excuses can come up and it’s, and that’s okay. But also, are you willing to do the things that you wanna.

So it’s a mindset thing. Yeah, it’s for sure. And I do talk a lot about mindset and emotions and feeling your emotions that your thoughts are not you. And you know that we can pause and we can change a thought. We can actually change a thought. And I think so many people just, and I think as children, we thought our thought were real.

Yes that’s. Yeah, we did. Yeah. That’s how it connects. I think sometimes we say, I need, I need to go work out. that need has a different level of energy than I am going to work out, or I want to work out. So our words mm-hmm matter, right? Yes. And the way our brain interprets our words, mm-hmm right. For sure need.

And should I, those are, those are great. Pause or PO, you know, pausing [00:39:00] words. Yes. To say, why am I saying I need to do this? Yes. What is the need? Or one of the things I do yeah. In my coaching program is make a list of all your shoulds and are they really shoulds or, and all your needs are they really needs or they want, and, you know, just changing our language, changing our thoughts about things can really help us put our lives into perspective and make better decisions that will help us achieve our goals.

yes. And a lot of the, the clients that I work with too, do the exact same thing. They go, yeah, I really need to wait, wait, I really . I’d really like to do, you know, they ch they catch themselves yes. In the moment. And that’s a good thing to be able to catch yourself. It means you are noticing what you’re noticing.

That’s a big step. It’s a huge step, you know, it’s there’s a huge success in awareness. Mm-hmm just becoming aware of something, right. Mm-hmm because you can’t, we can’t change anything unless we’re aware there’s something that we [00:40:00] wanna change. Right, right. So, right. And we, it gets, I think that I call, I call our thoughts sometimes like a spider web, because one thought gets connected to another connected to another connected to another, this, this magnetic.

And all of a sudden you have a hundred little thoughts going on in your head and wherever they’re going, they’re spiraling up or they’re spiraling down. That’s you know, how can we slow them down and pause and take a break and try, try something else? Yes, try. Yeah. Right. For sure. For sure. Mm-hmm so you’ve written this book and I know that you I’ll put it in the show notes.

You said that people can email you and just put book in the subject line and you’ll send them the book. Tell us a little bit. What they’ll find in the book? Well, the book is really kind of half a memoir and half a self-help. So it really outlines my story as to how I got kind of caught in this trap of self-loathing and body loathing.

And. I also, at the end of most chapters, [00:41:00] I have what I call step backs. So we can step back and take, you can step into the story and see what kind of things may have been similar that you can look back on that may have formed some of the beliefs that you have. I have a cousin who’s about 20 years older and she said, it’s very similar to aging.

You know, some of the step backs that, that she was able. See a similarity. She didn’t have any of the body issues or anything, but she, she could see that with the aging and how you could still get some really good information around, you know, the step backs by working through some of those. So it’s really kind of my journey through getting stuck in this self self-loathing treadmill.

You know, and I use the, the gardening analogy with seeds, where we get these beliefs planted and then they get kind of rooted and solidified in there. And it takes some noticing and weeding before we can, we, we can [00:42:00] replant and, and start to flourish. And so that’s kind of the way the book rolls out and share a lot of the things that I did to help myself out and then, you know, give the reader the opportunity to yeah.

Experiment with some things that might work for them. That’s awesome. Because when you share your story, then it helps other people realize they’re not alone. Oh. She went through that and she came out the other side. I can do it too. And I like that you can, it applies to all areas of your life, not just body image issues.

So why did you decide to write it? Was it, and was it healing? Did it heal you by writing it? I found out so much more by writing. it started out with just kind of a memoir piece and then just really understanding, well, well, it’s no wonder I started down this path and once, once you can start to validate yourself for some of your choices and decisions that you’ve been beating yourself up over for years.

Yeah. It, it, [00:43:00] it really lightens the load a little bit and then you’re able to, to feel. I don’t know if it’s easier, but it just gives you a you’re allowed to feel and it’s okay to feel. And I, I use that term a lot with a lot of our behavior. Well, it’s no wonder that that’s what you did because look at, what’s been going on, you know, this, this, and this, and how, how can.

It’s, it was uncomfortable. A lot of times that kind of feeling and thoughts haven’t been validated for us though. So we continue to beat ourselves up for it. And then like, you’re right. When you take a step back and you realize, well, wouldn’t anyone feel or think that way after having been through what I went through or whatever.

Yeah. And then you can give yourself some grace, some compass. I, I, I say sometimes, and it’s happened to be a little bit more lately, too, that sometimes the only person that will validate you is yourself and that you can validate yourself. It’s okay. Because we, we want validation [00:44:00] from our friends or from our family or for someone and they might not just, they might not get it.

Yeah, that’s so true. And then that’s not their job to get. Right. You know, a lot of them will, but not always. And so sometimes, you know, you can validate yourself for what you’re feeling, because your feelings are your feelings. No one can take them away from you. So you, you know, have them identify them.

And then what are you going to do with them? How does that work? You know, like when you wrote about the. When you wrote in the book I’m, I mean, I’m assuming you might have written about how your parents said she’s the chubby baby, or maybe how your brother said what did he say? Fanny and Annie Fanny farmer.

Yeah. Mm-hmm . So did you write about those things and how did you deal with how they might have reacted to it? Well, my brother. I really tried. [00:45:00] I didn’t, I, I really tried not to blame anybody because it wasn’t anybody’s fault. Mm-hmm it was my own interpretation. It was my own internalization of what was happening around me.

And so I was very specific about that. Mm-hmm and why wouldn’t he and his buddies, you know, he wouldn’t want his little pets, PEY little sister around playing football with the boys. Yeah. You know, so, and, and, and his army men, and I mean, I did all kinds of little right things that annoying sisters do, right?

Yeah. So I tried to make sure that I wasn’t blaming at all. Mm-hmm but I also wanted to lay out kind of the, the, the, the things that happened. That I did take in, you know, and there were specific events that I do layout in the book that, that really were internalized. I internalized them. No one else did.

I did. And, and then I, that’s what I could step back and go, no wonder. Yeah. I thought because I took it all in and it’s that [00:46:00] and I’m sure you’ve talked about this with a guest. How, once we, once we put something in our. We find, we look for proof yes. To make it, make it, make sure it’s true. Right.

And so that’s what I was doing. I was just, oh, well then I must be fat. Oh, well then I must be fat. Oh. Then I must be like, I just was looking for proof all around me at that age. And I found it because if you look for it, You’re gonna find it. You gonna find it and we need to stop and ask, well, is that true?

What else could be true? You know, one of my past guests said that, you know, our mind thinks all these thoughts and, you know, 70,000 a day or whatever, and we just rubber stamp ’em and say, yep, that’s it. That’s true. That’s true. We never really stop and say, well, is that true? So that’s taking a pause, being mindful.

Yeah. The curiosity, you know, being curious with your thoughts and, and compassionate with your thoughts and allowing them to, to kind of show up and, and say, Hmm, [00:47:00] can I question that? Yeah. Is your thoughts aren’t you exactly? You’re the observer of your thoughts? Mm-hmm right. And that’s hard. That’s hard to grasp.

Yeah. It is very hard to grasp. Yeah. And that’s, I think, you know, people will call it the inner mean girl, right. Or your inner critic or whatnot. And I had my, I, I have names for the, the people in my head and the neighborhood in my head and all the different names that I would call them. And that helped, helped really helped me notice when they were acting up.

Yeah. And when it was not, was a thought that was just been around forever. And that I could actually take a look at it from a different set of eyes in a D from a different perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, I’m trying to think if there’s something that we talked about on Wednesday night in the, in the, with when the audio didn’t work that we didn’t discuss tonight, I think we covered a, a lot of it and more.[00:48:00] 

I do too. I think so, too. So it was when we had our conversation too, it was really interesting how we both started and how the emotions will kick in during little triggers, you know, something, something happens and all of a sudden, you, you know, that voice comes in and, you know, we both were like, What’s going, on’s happening.

What’s going on. We’re sweating. We’re getting, and you said in that part of it, you said you start to feel small. You know, like people are watching us the eyes on us and, and it’s not working out. And, and then I said, look, that kind of thing. Would’ve really gotten me stressed in the past. But when I, I think it was just seeing my, my kid’s dad pass away, I just, I, I look at things differently now cuz it’s like, look when.

At the end of my life, am I gonna be thinking about, oh my gosh, that interview I did with Anne and the sound didn’t work. No. Right. And so right. We were just showing that we’re human. Right, [00:49:00] right, right. And one thing that you, you had shared, which I’d love to, to bring up mm-hmm was When we are posture, right?

Yeah. When we start to feel more confident or comfortable in our, in our bodies or ourselves, or, or our minds, whatever that might be, we sit up taller or we stand up taller and we bring our chest out. And just that action shifts our energy and it, yeah. For. It pulls confidence in us. Yeah. Versus, and I remember when we were talking about that, because it was when I was asking you, you know, I was telling you, I wasn’t so sure if I’d have a boob job or not, because I feel like they’re big.

And when I, when I look in the mirror, I don’t see that. But when I see pictures of myself, I don’t like it. And so should I, or should I and we talked about the fact that you, as a co aren’t gonna tell me what I should or shouldn’t do. It’s up to the client to, to figure out what works for me and to really.

Look into what are the reasons, why am I thinking that? And, you [00:50:00] know, am I thinking that having that. Breast reduction is gonna all of a sudden make me so much. Am I looking for that to make me happier? Right. So, you know, some thought process that goes into whether or not we, we do that. And that’s when we started talking about like, you could be self-conscious about your chest and then you slouch or right.

Or whatever. And. Posture really helps with your confidence. Yeah, mm-hmm I think I use this example, like if you’re walking down the street and you don’t feel good about yourself, you’re kind of hunched over, you’re looking down and if you see anybody looking at you, you know exactly what they’re thinking.

Oh, they must be thinking this and oh, they must be thinking that, right. And then if, if something happens and you’re walking down the street and you feel good, you’re tall and you’re lifted, you don’t notice anybody walking by, you don’t notice, you might say hi, but you don’t, you don’t go into that story assuming, right?

Assuming that this person’s saying that, and that person’s saying that, and I’m. Yeah, I know that because that’s in my head, it’s not in their [00:51:00] heads, but that’s how do you in that way a second, how do I know? That’s what they were thinking. When they looked at me, they could have been stressed out about something and probably didn’t even notice me.

Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, for sure. And that’s so interesting though. I always, you know, that’s a really important thing to bring up too, is it is when you, when you, when you’re thinking that everybody’s thinking this about you. Comes from one thought can lead to a whole story. You write a whole book on a thought that’s not even true.

Right. If yout go that far. exactly. Yep. It’s so true. And I, one of, you know, one of the, the mentors that I, that I worked, I didn’t work with, but read her book and that’s Byron Katie, right. And her work. And, and is that. and what if that’s true? And then how do you feel if that’s true and all those questions, you know, some, so there’s a lot of, a lot of, kind of the tips and tools that I found just from doing my own work helped me tremendously in my own understanding of [00:52:00] feelings and thoughts and emotions and stories and identities.

Yeah. All of those things that we hold onto. That’s one thing about becoming a coach when you become a coach, when you go to the coach training like you’ve done that. I’ve done. It’s not to fix others. It’s not to, you don’t even really focus a lot initially on coaching, you focus on yourself. Right. And you learn a lot about yourself and then that enables you to be a better coach.

So when you become a coach, you learn so much about yourself that just enables you to be such a, a good coach. I think mm-hmm so I can tell you’re a good coach, Anne and it, and we are learning all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I’m always learning and, and everybody helps me learn. Yes. You know, whether it’s a.

Whether it’s a client or my coach, but I’m always kind of understanding and seeing different perspectives and, and learning new things. Yeah. I mean, that’s what it’s all [00:53:00] about. We, you don’t go to a coach really to get fixed. No, I don’t think , but you can, you can work on certain things that are going on.

Right, right. And right. Yeah. Yeah, you don’t get fixed. Yeah. Yeah. I go, we’re, we’re trying to kind of work ourselves out of the job, I guess, but that’s yeah. It’s because we want people to be able to handle the things that, you know, we feel blessed to be able to handle now. Yeah. Because I, I, cuz I do and, and I still work with coaches and I’m sure you do too.

Yeah. So if you’re investing in a coach, invest in a coach, that’s investing in themselves, it’s always. Yes for sure. Absolutely. And that’s one of that, it’s one of those, those wonderful things that you can always find. Right. You know, a mentor and someone to learn from. Yep. So, yep. So I wanna put your email address in the show notes.

So people can email you with a subject line book and then they can get a copy of your book. Your book is the body joyful my journey from self-loathing loathing to self-acceptance. And [00:54:00] we’re gonna talk about that in just a minute, the title mm-hmm and then your Instagram is And Poer Poer at with 11 beside behind it.

Mm-hmm and then you have a website, which is the body joyful.com mm-hmm . So when, with the title of the book, I remember the last time we talked we, you said that you’re. Publisher wanted you to have the title, be my journey from self-loathing to self-love and you said, no, it’s gotta be self-acceptance.

And can you explain that and why? Yeah. Well, the interesting thing thing is that when I worked on myself from, in this place of self-loathing and, and really not liking myself at all self love was. Like I had an, a, a version to the word itself and body lo like there’s no way it was inconceivable that I would ever get to a space where I can love my body.

And for a lot of people, [00:55:00] that’s where they are. And it’s just too much of a jump to go from where they are to this place of love. Mm-hmm self-acceptance and body acceptance is, is a it’s closer. Yeah, it’s still, it’s still a reach. and that’s, that’s why there are stepping stones along the way. And a body of appreciation and self appreciation is part of that journey and, and working through some of those tools that we can work through to help along that journey towards self acceptance.

But that I really didn’t want to turn people off, especially the people that I work with to say from self-loathing to self love, because I thought, well, if they were in my place of self-loathing, they’re gonna be like, Nah, I don’t need that. That’s not gonna work for me. Right. And so I really was, I really wanted acceptance.

That was, that was the word that. That mattered to me. Yep. Yeah. Then I said, your next book is gonna be from self-acceptance to self love. Right, [00:56:00] right. Then that’s a closer, that’s a, that’s more, that’s more doable. It’s more reachable. Right, right. So, yeah, for sure. and thank you so much for being on the onward podcast for a second time.

thank you so much for having me, Emily. I love what you’re doing and you’re. Amazing work, sharing stories about people and the information that you give to. So it’s been a pleasure. . Thank you everybody for watching the show.

I greatly appreciate you, Jenny. I saw you were there. There might have been a couple other people watching and I appreciate you. And I hope everyone has a wonderful fourth July weekend. And I’m just gonna play the outro and I’ll see you guys next week. Onward live is sponsored by Emily Harmon, coaching and consulting.

Visit my website, Emily harmon.com to learn more about me and my coaching programs. I’d love to help you create a life you love living. [00:57:00] Remember every adversity is our own personal university. Sometimes the lessons are difficult. And we must learn from our experiences. Vulnerability is your superpower.

You are lovable and worthy, and we discuss these topics and more because professional is personal. Thank you for joining us in engaging with me and my guest. I love.