How to Go From From Setback to Significance: Not Letting Your Worst Day Define You

[00:00:00] Or a shift in the wind, a body dormant underground. Welcome to onward. Live a live stream, focused on encouraging you to create a life you love living. Now let’s go beyond success to significance, being clear on our why is crucial. It requires doing the inner work, finding ourselves, getting to know ourselves, embracing our inner child.

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Hello, whoever’s watching. Let me know you’re here. I see that we’ve got some people watching, let me know in the chat. I’m Emily Harman. I’m host of Onward Live, and also this ends up turning into a podcast as well. So, um, in a few weeks, this, this episode will be published as a podcast. So thank you for those who watch and to those who also listen to the podcast, I was just, uh, watching that video play.

At the end, how I say let’s make time for what’s most important in our lives. And tonight was such a fun night because I went out to dinner with my parents. It’s their 60th wedding anniversary. And I gave [00:02:00] them a book that had. A lot of pictures of, you know, them before they were married and then while you know, their marriage and then, you know, as they raised their kids and it was so fun.

it was so fun to give them that book. And you know, one of the pictures was of me and my dad and my brother and sister visiting the Naval Academy when. It was probably 1973, I think when women weren’t allowed at the Naval Academy. Right. And then, so it’s the three of us. And then beside it, I put a picture of me on my graduation day from the Naval Academy and my sister, who was a midshipman at the time saluting me and my brother saluting me because he was a student at the Air Force Academy. So all three of us went to academies. It was pretty cool. And, um, it was just so fun to be able to go out to dinner with my parents. I know people that are my age, you know, 59 [00:03:00] really enjoying.

that was a fun event to celebrate that. And now I’m going to bring in my guest Warwick.

Welcome. And I wanna introduce you a little bit. So before we, uh, start you’re the founder of Crucible Leadership, which is a philosophical and practical breakthrough for turning business and personal failures into the fuel for igniting of life of significance. And you were only 26. When as the fifth generation air to the media empire, bearing your family name, you led and lost a [00:04:00] multi-billion dollar, um, public takeover bid.

And the result was that the company that was founded by your great, great grandfather, slipped from family control after 105th. To years and you call that a, a crucible moment. Um, and you’re also a wall street journal bestselling author of the book, crucible leadership, embrace your trials to lead a life of significance.

And you have a undergraduate degree in philosophy, politics and economics from Oxford university and an MBA from Harvard. And you’re an international coach Federation IC. Certified executive coach. So welcome. Welcome. Glad to have you here. Fairfax. I was on your sh Warwick. I was on your show, um, a few months ago.

What? Six months ago, maybe? Yeah. And now you’re on my show. Yeah. so, well, thank you so much having me. And I love that you talk about significance and how you moved onward from adversity. So a lot of cross current, so I love, love your message. [00:05:00] Yeah. Yeah. Just creating a life that you, that you love living. I mean, how do you go from what you went through with, uh, your family business?

To creating a life that you really love and to a life of significance and then to not let your worst day define you. So I’m really excited to learn from you tonight. Well, thank you. Yeah. Great to be here. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about your story. I kind of highlighted a little bit, but what do you wanna say about it?

What happened with you? Yeah, well, I mean you did in the intro, I gave, uh, some, uh, context, but, uh, yeah, I grew up in this 150 year old family media business in, in Australia, it had newspapers, TV, radio magazine. It had the us equivalent or the Australian equivalent, I should say, at the wall street journal, New York times, Washington post.

It was a massive company with the opinion leaders of our, of our country. So growing up, my parents [00:06:00] felt like, you know, that I should be the parent or certainly leading bigger in the company. And, uh, so I spent my whole life preparing for that role. So, you know, you know, yesterday, my undergrad at a Oxford, like my dad at south relatives worked at wall.

Got my MBA to Harvard business school, but it wasn’t so much about leading a life that I would love. It’s leading a life that other people, uh, felt I should. And it’s funny, obviously you’re very well aware in us. Uh, I think it’s west point, they talk about on a country. I think that was a Douglas MacArthur speech and I’ve never served in the military, but that sense of.

I mean, it’s hard wide into me. Mm-hmm so whether I enjoyed it or not was irrelevant. It’s all about the mission, the cause. And there was almost this sense that, you know, having a media company like that, a newspaper company, it felt like you were serving your nation in a sense. It was like a sacred cause.

Yeah. Um, so, uh, yeah, there was other [00:07:00] crosscurrents, it was founded by a person of faith and other person of faith as all these cross currents. Basically where the crucible happened is in early 87, my dad died. He was in his eighties and I was from his third marriage. There was rumors of, uh, instability in the share market.

Part of the was publicly held. And so I felt like, as my parents did, the company had drifted from the vision of the found it wasn’t being well managed. So in my youthful naivety, as I was finishing how the business school literal. By day I’m in class and by night I’m on the phone to investment bankers. I mean, it’s at 26 years old.

It’s just crazy stuff in hindsight. So I’m with a lot of youthful, naivety and idealism, which you idealism is not bad. It’s gotta be focused in the right direction. So, uh, I launched this 2.2, $5 billion take over and from the beginning, things went wrong. Other fan members sold out. They didn’t really believe in my.

Didn’t wanna be locked in a [00:08:00] company, uh, run by a 26 year old. I mean, who would, uh, the October 87 stock market crash at our asset sales. So by the end of the year, we had an unsustainable level of debt by 90, 93 years later, Australia went into big recession. Newspapers are very cyclical and the company went under.

So here I was trying to, you know, restore the company to the image of the founder, whether that’s true or not, whether it was necessary is a whole other discussion. Right. But so. Then in, I guess, uh, early in 91, I moved to the us, my wife’s, the American we met in Australia. So I suppose I had a get out of jail card in that sense.

Australia’s a wonderful country, but for me it was so prominent. I couldn’t have had a normal life. You know, my, I was on editorial cartoon media. So yeah, it was a devastating crucible. And so in the nineties, I was maybe not clinically depressed, but certainly I was. And so I had to figure, well, what do I do now?

I thought [00:09:00] it wasn’t like appropriate to have my own vision or my own life. I thought that was almost narcissistic. You have no right to your own life or vision. It has to be in the service of a greater cause in my case, the family newspaper business. So now say, gosh, is it okay to have my own vision? I don’t even know what it, what it would be.

I’d never thought about it. Right? Question. How, how old were you when you kind of knew that you would be taking over this business? I don’t know both. I mean, you know, it was, yeah. Other family members might have had a different perspective, but certainly my parents. And for a variety of reasons, I would’ve been, uh, if I’d been patient, uh, the major shareholder amongst the family members.

So there was some practical reasons, uh, you, there were articles like, you know, young Warwick, cuz my dad was so a Fairfax could have had it all, uh, you know, blew it, uh, you know, young, naive kid who just hot. Yeah, at least until recently, that was my Wikipedia entry. So, you know, sort of the image and [00:10:00] the Australian public mind still to this day, it’s pretty close to.

So, wow. Wow. And so you were 26 when all this happened, which I think about my daughter, she’s 26. That’s a lot for would be a lot for her to take on. And, uh, I can see that that was, you know, that’s understandable that that was a lot for you. And so why do you call it a, a crucible moment? So really a crucible is.

Uh, a tragedy, uh, something that’s very painful. It could be your fault, which largely wasn’t my case. It could be, uh, something that was done to you. Um, uh, you know, we mentioned earlier have my own podcast beyond a crucible and we’ve had guests, who’ve had, uh, physical crucibles, uh, you know, survivors of abandonment or abuse illness.

And so the crucibles may vary, but it’s typically very a searing experience. In which, who you were before is never [00:11:00] gonna be the same. And so you’ve got a choice. You either hide under the covers and say, this was unfair. What they did to me was unspeakable or what I did was stupid, but I was more on the, what I did was stupid category.

Um, and you can either just moan away the rest of your 30, 40, 50 is. And eventually we all have an expiration. You can say, yes, what I did was wrong or stupid, or what was done to me was awful, but how can I learn from this? How can I use this to lead a life of significance, which we call a life dedicated to serving others.

So you really, you don’t always have a choice about what was done to you. Even if you’ve made a mistake, you can’t undo the mistake, but you do have a choice of how you move forward, how you move on. That’s sometimes it’s hard to see that, right. If you’re just really dead, you said you were down and I mean, how do you pull yourself out of that?

How do you see that? There’s a way forward? Well, it would took, for me, it took years. [00:12:00] I mean, I was just in this Len cycle of how could I say stupid? I had a Harvard MBA. How could I meet those assumptions? I mean, I was. Beating myself up relentlessly, but you know, it’s really through baby steps through, in my case, uh, you know, I, uh, as you know, live in Annapolis, Maryland, which you’re very familiar with with the us Maal academy being there 30 years.

And so I got a job in a local aviation services company, uh, doing business and financial analysis. Pre-internet just so they didn’t really know who I was and I didn’t, appetize it, to be honest. Um, but uh, eventually gosh, at least pretty analytical. I can, you know, do business analysis fairly well. And you know, it was really bit by bit that I reclaimed my, um, identity, my vision, and it wasn’t S some well thought out plan.

It was just listening to those key moments. So for instance, I had one key moment. [00:13:00] 2003, you know, I got great performance reviews, but I had a, is this all the is moment mm-hmm I was doing fine, but I felt like I wasn’t using all the gifts that I’ve been given from my faith perspective by God, but, you know, from, from wherever.

And, um, I went to a woman that did, uh, mid-career executive coaching, and she said, you know, after some tests you have a great profile to be an executive coach. What’s that research, it got certified as an executive coach. From there. I got on a couple nonprofit boards, church boards, school board. I gave a, uh, talk in church about, I dunno, what I’ve been through.

People said that was helpful. I thought, gosh, maybe I should write a book about what I went through and the lessons learned format. Gosh, if I have a book to get it promoted, you gotta have a brand and you know, uh, website. And so I get it Harvard MBA. So it was. Baby step by baby step. It wasn’t this grand plan of, oh, it’s crucial leadership.

It’s gonna be a book and it’s podcast [00:14:00] and mm-hmm , you know, these courses, it was just, okay, what’s the next small step that I can take. And at the time, back in 96, it was, you know, I had some money, but I gotta get a job. Yes. For monetary reasons. But Justine self respect, what can I do while I work in the back, I was pretty good at spreadsheets.

One day, maybe I could start. It wasn’t a grand vision. It’s what can I do to use skills in an all? And maybe there’s an easier path, but I didn’t, I didn’t have any help at the time beyond just taking a small step. So really part of the key is just take a small step, a step. Yeah. One of my coaches says, do what you can with what you have.

And sometimes we don’t even. This is interest. I mean, I’ll get, just give an example to make some context of it, do what you can with what you have. Right. Okay. Well, I’m the president of this, uh, homeowner’s association for my condo building. That is almost the, building’s almost a hundred years old. It’s 98 years old and we have.[00:15:00] 

An issue in the basement that requires, um, some temporary shoring and then a permanent fix. And, you know, it’s hard to get contractors to help around here. Right. And also it’s kind of construction kind of contracting and I’ve, I’ve got a contracting background, but not construction. So I’m just feeling stressed about it.

Right. Well, whenever we’re feeling stressed, And anxious or overwhelmed, you know, part of our brain shuts down. So we don’t have access to everything. Right. It’s just that fight or flight response. And so I’m thinking, oh, I know I’m supposed to do what I can with what I have. I don’t even know, you know, like who could I, so finally I, I remembered, oh yeah.

My, um, roommate from the Naval academy, ha has, is a lawyer that works for a construction firm. and she’s been doing it for so long. So I can ask her some of these questions, you know, about, about how to approach this situation. And so that’s just an easy example to show a little example, to show that when we say [00:16:00] do what you can with what you have.

It’s also like calming down, maybe saying a prayer or meditating or getting yourself centered so that you can use your whole brain to, to think about that you can use your whole brain to think about, well, what could I do with what I have, or what are the gifts or the opportunities here for moving forward, but you can’t come up with some of those things.

Number one on your own when you’re stressed. And I think it also helps to have a coach, like a coach helped me kind of be thinking things through. Absolutely. I had a coach for many years and yeah. I mean, certainly something that, you know, we call it having a team of fellow travelers and they can be those who encourage you, which is really important.

Yeah. Don’t tell me what to do. Just, Hey, we, Hey Emily, you know, you’re talented, you’re qualified. You can do it rather than, Hey, this is what you should do. Not helpful, just encouragement. Right. And then those who have complimentary skills, you know, I mean, I love, uh, writing and thinking and reflect. [00:17:00] I don’t particularly enjoy selling or promoting mm-hmm well, I have a team that does things that I’m not good at, or don’t like to do.

And, you know, smart man or woman realizes you, you can’t have all the gifts. No. So what are the things I don’t either don’t like to do, or I’m not good at? And let me surround myself with those people and let me surround myself with people who encourage me rather. Australia is a phrase, a tall poppy syndrome, which is one of the unattractive parts of Australia, which basically means, you know, there can be a tendency, not all for some Australians to say, oh, you can’t do that.

Or, you know what, who makes you better than anybody else? And you’re sticking your head up and you think you can do well. Well, you know, Gee, don’t you think, you think you’re better than all the rest of us and you don’t need those sorts of folks? No, no. How, what’s your relationship with your family members now?

Like after all that’s happened, it’s been some time, so, yeah. Good question. I mean, obviously there was some hurt feelings, uh, now, I mean, from a model sheet perspective, they sold out, [00:18:00] uh, you know, just before the stock crash at the high of the high 80 stock market. So yes, they. Newspapers have gone downhill since they got the money.

Wasn’t really the issue, but they felt forced to sell. So I think over the years, uh, you know, we have family gatherings, I’d say, you know, by and large, pretty good. Um, I mean, do they think what I did was, uh, a good thing. No, of course not. Do I think it was a mistake? Sure. I mean, So I’d say at large it’s good.

And without going too far backwards, there’d been rips in my family for decades before my takeover in 1976, some other family members shoot my dad out as chairman. I was 15 at the time. Loved my dad. Clearly. I didn’t think that was the right thing to do. So there are risks before, uh, I came on the scene from a career perspective, but I’d say by and large, you know, pretty good.

They realized. I may have been, uh, foolish and naive, but I had good intentions, but yeah, it’s, [00:19:00] it’s by large, you know, uh, you know, pretty good. It’s not, they weren’t bad people. Um, so yeah, I mean, not bad considering mm-hmm yeah. So when you say what you did, what was it that you did? I mean, your father passed away.

You’re supposed to be taking over the company. Is there one thing that you did or just some decisions that, you know, didn’t go well or. Yeah, I think they would say they didn’t think there was anything that wrong with the way the company’s being run. I mean, I went more the listeners with some particular examples of just different media company that we could have had a part, a piece of and some crazy capital raising scheme.

So they were some legitimate issues, but they would’ve thought things were, were not going bad. They, their attitude is look, one of these days, you’ll probably have a leading role in the company. Manager director, chairman, who knows, you know, in a few decades, uh, but just work your way up, learn the business.

And that’s a reasonable approach, you know, did I really need to do what I was doing? Probably not. [00:20:00] Yes. The stock market price of the company rocketed up the market felt the company was in play. Uh, but yeah, I think they clearly felt like what I did. Wasn’t uh, wasn’t good at the top. Felt like I. No choice.

And, um, you know, in the, in the longer term, I guess the bigger mistake was really, I wasn’t living my own life. Yeah. I was living my, I wasn’t even living my dad’s life. He would’ve been a better philosophy. Profess he wrote books about synthesis, synthesizing different religions, very spiritual and broad sense of the word, but he wasn’t a business guy at all.

A ride. Yeah. Philosopher. He had to take over the job cuz from his dad. Right. Or whatever from the family. Yeah. Yeah. Just generations. And so, um, the biggest mistake I made is I’m not a rip at Murdoch, you know, take charge kind of person. I’m a reflective advisor. So was it who was a terrible fit to my skills?

Mm-hmm if I’d been smarter, I would’ve just said. I don’t wanna work in a company. I wanna do [00:21:00] something else. But the reality is given the whole Judy thing was so hard wide. The only way I would’ve left the company was if somehow I was forced out or it went bankrupt. I mean, Judy thought a bad thing. But it can channel the wrong direction.

Bad things can happen again. Not against Judy obviously, if you’re in the military, you have to believe in Judy but duty. Yeah. Uh, it wasn’t, to me, it was misplaced. I was sacrificing my life. And not honoring my own gifts and, uh, and talent. So yeah, that was probably the biggest single mistake. Even more than the take of was sacrifice in my life, but some ancestors vision 150 years before right, right.

Yeah. That makes, so what does it mean to you to, to lead a life of significance, um, to lead a life of significance? Do you have to be impacting, uh, millions of people or, I mean, just, what does that. Lead a life of significance. Yeah. I mean, clearly I grew [00:22:00] up on a big stage where I thought, gee, you know, in my naive, uh, risk mentality, maybe I could have an impact on the nation of a straighter.

Maybe by name might be known in the history books. I mean, not very humble, I suppose, but no, it doesn’t have to be, we coined this phrase. It could be from the boardroom to the living room. so it could be in your, uh, your community. Maybe you feel like you’re in the inner city and you wanna, uh, you know, do up the neighborhood park, make it safe for families and kids.

It doesn’t have to be, you know, be a general, an Admiral, a CEO, or found a nonprofit, cure cancer, nothing wrong with those things, but it’s not like, gosh, unless I change the world and my name is in history books. I’ve failed. Not at all. You know, if you have a whole bunch of people making differences in their neighborhoods it adds up and even beyond adding up, you know, one person, one neighborhood’s life changed, um, means a lot. So you [00:23:00] can think of significant the wrong way. Oh, you know, I should not even bother cuz I’m never gonna make a difference cuz I define differences. So on such a large scale, I’ve defined it out of existence.

I’ve defined it into the realm of impossibility. For me, that’s not accurate or helpful. Yeah. So do you have children? Yep. Sorry. Think a little, uh, draw here. Yeah, I do. Uh, we have three kids. 31 28 and 24. Um, boy, girl, boy. And, uh, they all grew up here and, um, yeah, I’m very blessed to be able to say, um, as a coach, I’m very focused on them doing what they love.

Yeah. And what, you know, they will enjoy none of this inherited stuff. I didn’t give them any family names, at least not that I knew of. Um, yeah, that’s what I was wondering. It’s like, how did it impact, how did your crucible moment impact the way you raised your children? Uh, [00:24:00] massive. I mean, growing up with about as much money, wealth and status as, as you can, while.

I don’t have billions. You know, we are certainly, uh, you know, we’re somewhat comfortable and pretty comfortable. Now. I really wanted to make sure, you know, my kids realize that money doesn’t make you happy. Uh, nothing against money, but pursuit of money is not the way to happiness per se. I wanted them to have their own lives and do what they enjoy.

And I wanted to be a present dad as some. Tends to be more the dads, um, work too hard and never around, you know, oh, you know, it’s, my wife will take care of the kids, you know, and raise the kids, which is not, uh, right or appropriate or help, you know, kids need both parents mm-hmm . Um, so I always was made sure that I was at there, you know, soccer games, dances, TRAC idols, and kind of, what’s amazing.

One of the things we do. Birthdays or have you, uh, we’ve got all these two outta my three kids are writers [00:25:00] fun enough. And so we have them write cards as well as say, what do you most value about whoever’s birthday? It is. Oh, and if it’s mine, what’s amazing is year after year after year and the now adults, my boys, who’ve got my wife Jane, so they’re more athletic from pep side, not from me.

Uh, they said, you know, dad, you were at my soccer games, my tennis game. You were always. every single card every single year. So, you know, whole nother subject, but you know, we talk about quality time, just turning up. It means everything to your kids. That’s part of creating a life, having a life of significance, right.

It doesn’t absolutely, you know, you impacted your kids, which will then impact their kids and it spreads out and you set the example for other parents, like, you know, oh, look, war. Work’s always at the games and he’s the dad. I mean, yeah. It’s those kinds of things and, and having the restraint and not tell your kids what to, you know, I might have opinions like every [00:26:00] parent, but you know, my daughter, for instance, she worked for a large faith based nonprofit in Australia.

She’s gone on, I don’t know, internships with Samari birth of big non in South Sudan. The Congo was extremely dangerous places. What am I gonna say? Don’t go. I mean, we did try that, but you know, she’s over 21. I mean, I, I, I applaud what she’s doing. She has a big heart. Well, now she’s doing child life, a completely different career shift, which is working with kids and hospitals.

It’s different than her writing ability, but who am I to tell her not to do that? Right. She has a heart for kids. That’s great. I support her. I might ask a couple questions. Right. But you know, I’m not here to run her life, right? It’s her life. It’s a God given right. To choose her own path and to choose the life that, you know, she, she love.

Yeah. So yeah, I’m your whole, your whole podcast and movement is about in my own small way. Try to live as much as I can. I really try not to tell other [00:27:00] people what to do with their lives. Cause I had that in spades with my own life. Yeah. Trying not to do that to others. Yeah. And you learn that as a coach, right.

Um, you know, you learn like when I was in the Navy, we did a lot of mentoring and mentoring. Not the same as coaching. Mentoring’s kind of like, oh, Emily, uh, how did you get where you are? I wanna get where you are. And so you kind of give more advice. I think when you’re, when you’re mentoring, but, um, with coaching, it’s asking questions and becoming a certified coach in the past, uh, year and all the training I had over the past two years, three years of coaching has really helped me with my relationship with my kids.

huh? Yeah, because I I’m able to, you know, have even more so, you know, listen to what they’re saying, but not judge and then not give advice, not try to fix it, you know, but ask them empowering questions, help them figure things out. So I think, you know, you, you, you became a coach kind of when your kids were [00:28:00] younger, right.

It probably helped you. Yeah, it, it did. I think probably the, the last frontier in that is, uh, Avoiding that with your spouse, it’s one thing with your kids to avoid telling your spouse? Well, let me help me. I don’t know about wise, but husbands, especially notorious are trying to. Their WIS. I mean, it’s just an epidemic, so I’m probably step over the line of time, but I really try, uh, not to, uh, and, and listen.

And actually I’ve got a lot of faults. I’m actually pretty good at listening and I have to confess, um, so. But yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, we’re all imperfect, we’re all make mistakes. We’re all step over the line and you just can’t help it, whether it’s with your kids, spouse, significant dollar, but right.

Just try to respect the fact that they have a right to live their own lives and make their own mistakes. Right. And so just honor that. Yep. Yep. And, um, so you said something, um, in your notes that you sent me about the refining cycle. [00:29:00] there’s some cycles that you go through in order to move beyond this crucible experience.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean the first one and you know, it’s funny, we’ve done an assessment at, uh, crucible leadership and, uh, We’ve we’ve uh, had about over 8,800 people respond and what’s amazing is over 71% have had a crucible experience, some, something that was so painful that it fundamentally changed their life.

So, uh, you know, crucibles are very common, unfortunately. So the first thing is really to kind of analyze a bit what happened if it’s your fault like me, uh, largely me. It’s like, well, what happened? Well, it’s, you know, I. Living somebody else to design. I was not, I was listening to bad advisors, not the good advisor.

It is a whole nother discussion. It’s a series of things, significant mistakes I made. So learn the lessons of. Part of that [00:30:00] moving forward. And every guest we’ve had on our podcast has, has proven this to be true. That’s an aspect of forgiveness and we are very clear doesn’t mean condoning we’ve had people who have been abused.

So that’s about as hard as it gets, obviously. So you never condone behavior that’s reprehensible, but so forgiveness is not so much for others. It’s more to be able to move forward. , you know, you, you are worthy of forgiveness. It’s a bit more clear cut when it’s your fault. So there is an aspect of forgiveness.

Understand your design. I ideally, I believe we’re all designed by God a certain way, whether it’s, you know, mathematical artistic, introvert, extrovert, uh, you know, whatever your design is, you know, don’t fight it. So, you know, if you are a scientist and you don’t have an, a cystic bone in your body, does it really make sense to, you know, devote 10 years your life to.

That’s what you wanna do. Great. But you know, maybe it might be better to channel that into the sciences or vice versa. So my [00:31:00] framework is don’t, you know, fight your design. We do have some constraints. We all have some degree of constraints, whether it’s right, you know, um, you know, height or there’s all sorts of things that are not easy to change, you know?

Um, so understand your design. and then what a lot of people don’t do is understand your fundamental beliefs.. It’s about a particular religion or philosophy. We all believe certain things it’s honoring your own beliefs, treasuring that don’t ignore that, you know, start about other people’s opinions about your own sacred truth and have a understanding of that.

Then in terms of creating a vision for your. understanding the lessons from your crucible, understanding how you designed, what you’re off the chart’s passionate about, which will often be linked to beliefs, or it can come from the ashes of your crucible and then just take baby steps, try different, you know, things, try different small, um, journeys or vision, and gradually over time, a [00:32:00] vision that you’re off the cart’s passionate about will happen.

I guess the final piece, when we talk about life is significance is that our framework is. Living some narcissistic life. It’s all about me and I don’t care about anybody else. And I’ll be rich and have Ferrari and boats. You know, obviously one could debate if it’s right or wrong, even forgetting morality.

I don’t think any psychologist on the planet will tell you that’s a path to happiness. Mm-hmm narcissism is not a path to joyful fulfillment. You might disagree with that value set, but there are certain parts of the human condition. You cannot. One is we’re wide to only get joined fulfillment if we’re serving others or some higher purpose, how we see that.

And that could be different for different people. So, you know, embrace certain, um, rules, if you will, the humanity, which, you know, even if you don’t. Think it makes sense. And you’re a, you know, even if you’re a narcissist, which maybe you wouldn’t even listen, basically, you know, life is significance is where joy fulfillment.

I’m sure what you do [00:33:00] gives you incredible joy. You know, when, when I see somebody that says what you said helped me as I did, when I gave a talk in church all the way back in 2008, the birth, the book, he meant everything to me. It’s like a drop of grace. Gosh, my pain, my story can help somebody else. Yeah. I don’t need a hundred stories.

Was great. And I’ve had a few more than one, so yeah, that’s really the refining cycle. It’s understanding, you know, learning the lessons of your crucible, understanding your design anchoring in your fundamental beliefs and values. Um, and then from there, you’ll find a vision you’re off the chart’s passion about and make sure that vision is helping you, uh, live a life to significance.

That’s the way to living a life to, and other people will actually. Because you’re helping them. Yeah. I mean, I think so many of us maybe don’t have the similar experience to you, but we grow up being told, you know, you’re gonna go to college, you’re gonna do this. You should do that. This is the way you should [00:34:00] go.

Um, so I guess one thing I’m wondering is I wonder. What would’ve happened if you were, you didn’t, you know, the company stayed afloat and stayed under you, would you do, what do you think, do you know? Is, would you have finally realized this isn’t what I love doing. I wanna do something different. I wonder it’s a great question.

That’s where I feel like in person of faith, you. Maybe there’s a divine hand. Maybe somebody out there realized because of my duty, which is so hardwired. I don’t think I ever would’ve left. Yeah. Nothing. Would’ve got me outta there. Cause I would’ve, I’m betraying my dad who ideally loved and my great, great grandfather.

And he’s a person of faith. I’m a person of faith. I mean, you, sometimes you connect the dots in the wrong way, which I think I did in some way. So I think I would’ve been miserable. I would’ve been in a Giled cage. Yes. A few hundred million richer, but [00:35:00] you know, how much do you need? I’m very comfortable now, but I don’t think I ever could have got out.

I just, I felt like it would’ve been betraying my dad. I just, I just, I did not believe I could have got, I would, you could have given me decades of coaching, but I’m betraying my dad. I mean, anything’s possible. I think it’s highly, highly unlikely that I ever would’ve left. I think this is the only way I could have left.

The way it happened, you know, not that it’s good with the pain and the 4,000 plus employees and yeah, so like I tried to do it, but no, I think for my own life, I said recently it was really deliverance getting outta that company. Well, IED cage, you know, we tend to. Sometimes look at things as either good or bad.

And a lot of our stress can come from, you know, what we think about a circumstance or a situation instead of just accepting it as it is. It happened. Some, we, we, we create a lot of stress for [00:36:00] ourselves trying to wish something we’re different or fight something. And, you know, the book untethered soul is a good book that, that talks about that.

It’s. how do you, how do we accept what has happened and, and, and move forward. So what are the things that you cover in your, in your book? Well, you know, it’s, um, in my book, I obviously talk about my story and the story of my family, my dad’s work, Fairfax and the founder of the company, uh, John Fairfax and just their great lessons learned from their lives.

You know, John Fairfax, certainly he went through a lot of crucibles. and it’s just remarkable his ability to forgive and move forward and be, you know, a big person, you know, mm-hmm so to speak. Um, uh, so there’s that strand, there’s also story from faith leaders, um, some in the Bible, you know, Gandhi and it doesn’t match matter, whether you [00:37:00] believe in that particular faith perspective, but, you know, learning from people that made big mistakes mm-hmm and had to, um, Have some, uh, degree of contrition and is somebody that I’ve always loved history, the stories of historical leaders.

Yes, there’s, I’ve always loved American history is my favorite. Part of history, even growing up in Australia, I had a history teacher that loved American history, so, okay. Power of teachers. And, um, so obviously there’s stories about, you know, Roosevelt and Washington, but my dad was a big ankle files, a lot of, uh, stories from, uh, British history and.

With your military background, you would obviously be familiar, uh, duke of Wellington and the battle of Waterloo fame in 1815, and then, uh, you know, Naval hero, uh, admiration, Nelson battle, FAL mm-hmm , you know, five. And so with all of these strands, you know, what are the things we can learn from these leaders, even in when history, uh, there are certain [00:38:00] aspects of how Nelson led.

It was off the charts relevant to today. The whole band of brothers theme comes from Shakespeare beer, but he had a brand of brothers of captains, I think about, was it 14 outta 17 became admirals, which is a fairly high ratio, as you would know, better than me, um, different era. But, um, I mean they would just go a five to him because he, he backed him up to such a degree.

It’s like pretty much nothing we can do so long as it’s bold and innovative, he’ll support. Wow. I mean, who, who has that kind of boss? Yeah, it’s rares. So the one that he was so successful, but anyway, there are other aspects to him. So basically it, it talks about these strands, but really at it’s hot it’s and we talk about this a lot on our podcasts, beyond the crucible is how do you bounce back from your worst day?

How do you not let a mistake or something to you? Define. How do you lead a license significance? There’s obviously a lot of leadership, uh, thoughts [00:39:00] in that book. Um, but it’s very personal. I’m very honest about my own failures and stupid decisions. And, uh, yeah, it was pretty painful to write when I write about my own story after a couple hours a day, I’d say like, I gotta stop this, cuz this is, this is exhausting.

yeah, I bet you, it was painful, you know, I mean, not all of us have had a crucible, uh, experience that. In the public eye, right? Oh my, my gosh. And you know, you in the book, in the study, you’ve got photos. One of the things, when you’re in the public eye, when you make mistakes, if you don’t make mistakes, you have editorial cartoons.

So, you know, they’re never. If it’s somebody that you don’t like, it’s actually funny. Yeah. Betting on your political or business viewpoint. But if it’s, you, it’s typically not funny. Right. It’s personal. And yeah, there was like me dressed up as some, you know, Jaus K Mongol, Raider, you know, young war, cuz he used to call me destroyed in a day.

What took over a [00:40:00] hundred years to build, you know, here I am with on. On a, you know, you know, Mongol horse with the whole fur hat and you know, the mustache and yeah, they were pretty, uh, they were pretty brutal. There was another one. How do you start a small business? Give worried Fairfax a big one. I, there was brutal.

Yeah. So, but yeah, you know, it’s, um, it feels like a lifetime ago, but, uh, yeah. So not everybody goes through that kind of epic cruc. But you know, many listeners, uh, you know, will there been fired? Will there been left down by parents, family members, uh, physical tragedies abuse. I mean, you know, uh, I’ve often said on my podcast, especially early on what I went through was nothing compared to what you went through you.

One small example, we had a, um, early on David Charna was his name. He was a Navy seal, like his [00:41:00] dad. and he was, uh, paralyzed in, in a training accident. And his dad said in all honesty, and you would know better than me. You don’t joke about this. He said, my son would’ve been as good a seal as any seal.

Right. If you’re in seal yourself, you don’t say that. Oddly mm-hmm . And so I said to this guy, and he’s, you know, maybe, I don’t know, early thirties, he now runs a clinic for vets in San Diego that has some of the. Equipment, you know, you would find and he’s, and I was almost apologetic saying what I went through is nothing compared to what you went through.

And he said, you know what work your worst day is your worst day. Yeah. And that was just, that was so generous of him. Uh, but I learned a lot from him. And so it’s easy to say, oh, I went through is nothing like what you went through or whatever your worst day is your worst day. If you feel like today, you’re at the bottom of the.

And it’s miserable. It’s not a competition, you know that you don’t, it’s not a scorecard. No. So don’t, [00:42:00] don’t be ashamed or feel like, oh, I shouldn’t be miserable because I have a friend that went through so much worse and I feel embarrassed. No, your, your worst day is your worst day. Yeah, that’s good advice.

Because a lot of times we can, we’re still feeling bad, but we diminish that and don’t, you know, the, the, I think the other thing I’ve learned is how important it is to feel those feelings and don’t minimize them, but feel them, let them flow through your body instead of. Just ignoring them and shutting them down.

Um, I did that a lot for a lot of my life. And one of my Paque, I think I say this on every episode, she said, when you shove your feelings to the basement, they lift weights. And you know, I, when I went on your show, I was talking about my crucible experience, which is right, you know, right after I retired, when my former husband died.

Dad and you know, all the feelings that I had shoved to the basement, cuz I was so busy working and raising kids as a single parent, you know, came back and, and so the important thing is to feel ’em, don’t diminish them, [00:43:00] acknowledge them, name them, talk about them and let the energy flow out of you. Don’t fight them and don’t shove ’em down and ignore them.

you know what you’re saying? Emily is so important to know it’s your podcast, not mine. And my podcast. I say, listeners, pay attention to what Emily just said to give me , but it really is really is important because, um, I mean, I have a lot of faults because I’m almost hyper reflective, uh, especially over the last, I don’t know, decade or more if I’m in pain or I’m confused, I’m fearful.

I have to understand what it is. I have to kind. figure it out. If it’s like in a business setting, it might be with my team. If it’s something personal, you know, I’ll talk to my wife and obviously, you know, we’ve married over 30 years, so she knows me. Mm-hmm so, you know, Gail is the name. I say, girl, I just feel like scared.

I feel fearful. I don’t know what’s wrong and we’ll talk about it. And she’ll throw a few trial balloons and eventually we’ll figure it out and being people of faith [00:44:00] and pray about it and all. And, uh, but it’s really helpful cuz if I know what it. Then I can figure out a way to move on. Whether it’s give myself what’s okay to be uncertain or, but half more than half the battle is understanding why we’re fearful, afraid, angry.

We’re all human. It’s not weakness to be fearful and angry and afraid and depressed at times we, everybody on the planet is right. You know, and sometimes, you know, the reason easily, but sometimes you’re like, something’s wrong. I just don’t get it. And you have to really slow down and, and do that reflecting and say, oh yeah, that’s what it is.

That’s really, and don’t be afraid of asking a spouse, a partner, a good friend. You might feel it’s humiliating. No, maybe they’ll respect you for actually having the courage. So many people don’t, I mean, I’m very reflective so I can do a lot of it myself to a degree, but you know, there’s a point at which you can’t, I don’t care how smart you are.

You can’t do it all yourself. Right. [00:45:00] Typically you need another person to help. I’m for counseling, I’ve gone through counseling. That’s helpful, but sometimes, you know, a friend can help too. Right? Yeah, it’s important to have friends and to make time for the, for, for them. So, um, so your podcast beyond the crucible, where you interviewed different people about their, their crucible moments and what they’ve learned.

Yeah. How many, how many, how long have you been doing your podcast? Oh, a few years now. I think we have over, is it a hundred, 120 guests? I’m not sure, but. I love, I feel like I’ve learned so much. Cause they’re all in the sort of, you know, they been through a crucible ly. Wouldn’t have them on if they hadn’t got beyond them in some fashion mm-hmm cause we want to give people hope not to.

Right. Obviously it’s all hopeless. Give up off a mean, that’s not really what we’re trying to promote. Mm-hmm but just, I mean, I’m staggered by how much of love, I mean, just a couple of examples. [00:46:00] We had a woman, Stacy co. That was very athletic growing up outside of Sydney. And she dove into a above ground pool and was diagnosed as a quadriplegic.

Mm-hmm now a lot of 12, 13 year olds are told by their parents. Don’t dive into an above ground pool. And when you’re that age, you think you bullet print again. She was very athletic. And so she went through suicidal thoughts and, you know, uh, various potential actions. Now she speaks and consult. And she said to me, what I went through was a blessing.

Well, how in the world, can that be a blessing? I’m not a psychologist thought of reframing, but that’s ridiculous. But I guess her point is the person she is now. Uh, wouldn’t be the same, had a recent woman, Sarah Willoughby, who’s English, but now lives in Australia. She went through secondary infertility.

And I haven’t heard of that before. I’ve heard of infertility. But secondary infertility, you get pregnant once you have a child, but then for some reason you can’t have any more kids. Oh [00:47:00] wow. And so she went through every treatment you can imagine and which one almost killed her. And so she wrote a book called infertility, saved my life.

That to me makes no sense, obviously, but you know, but she was judged. There were some women, especially who was like, you know, you are complaining, you can’t get pregnant again. Now I wish I could get pregnant the first time. So what in the world are you complaining about? Like a lot of things, unless you’ve been through it, right.

Understand it. Right. But, you know, again, I, I don’t pretend to say what people are, these two guests are saying is right or wrong, but that notion of. Reframing what you went through. What’s the good that can come out of that. Um, crucible that I went through, there is a healthy element of it. I’m not saying you should all.

You know, uh, embrace the mantra of these two people. Right. But there’s that aspect that we can learn from it definitely, definitely. Well, I put your podcast up here. It’s beyond the crucible so people can, uh, listen to that. And then your [00:48:00] book is crucible leadership, embrace your trials to lead a life of significance, and then, um, folks can connect with you on LinkedIn and also your.

Which is crucible leadership.com. And I’m assuming that they can order the book there and find out more about your coaching. Absolutely. And all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the book’s on, you know, Amazon and bounce and Nobles on, you know, river books are sold it’s uh, right. Yeah. And then you have a Facebook, uh, page crucible leadership.

So exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I commend you, uh, work for sharing your story and. Then also starting the podcast, writing your book and, you know, leading a life of significance, setting the example for how we can, we can all do that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just feel blessed doing what I’m doing and have a wonderful team that helps me do what I do and do the things that I’ve done enjoy.

And you know, one of the [00:49:00] things I really try to keep Senate on, I think we all have to be said, whether it’s faith, spirituality, philosophy, is, um, I love doing what I’m doing, but it doesn’t make me a better person. If I reach one more person or one more person reads my book or I have one more good guest, it doesn’t make me a better person.

So if you’re not careful, and if people in ministry can fall into that trap, oh, I have a bigger church. And, and again, I’m an elder, a non-denominational church in Annapolis. So I. But, you know, if you’re not careful, you can start to feel like, okay, now that I’m at X level, I’m big time. I’m a better I’m, I’m a better person.

Look how many people I’m helping. So don’t get, don’t get caught out and even doing good can be turned into something bad. You know, if you believe in, yeah, that’s true. You can get caught up in like is evil, dark versus light, kind of the whole style war. How many likes do I have on my posts? So no one’s liking them.

So, you know exactly that must mean I’m not [00:50:00] making a difference and whatever. Yeah. So it’s one, maybe, you know, theme I’d really encourage listeners to think about is whatever your spiritual philosophical anchor is. Take time to meditate, pray, read whatever your go. System is, and you just gotta keep back with a few close friends, spouse, significant other, you know, by all means live the life that you love live.

The life is significance, but don’t think all this doing makes you a different person. Keep humble, always try to learn, uh, because if you’re not careful, one day you’re doing a lot of good and it’s easy to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory and your ego can get war by success. And, uh, you can say, you know, ly you’ve changed.

You’re not the person, you know, you are on a great track, you’ve changed and you know, you’re drinking the Kool-Aid, you know, you’re just believing your own breast clippings. It’s like, it’s so sad. You know, you had this great vision and [00:51:00] it’s now got tarnished, you know? Yeah. And you don’t wanna be that person.

The only way that happens is stay true to your mattress philosophy, whatever that is. You’ve got to find a spiritual. Philosophical framework that keeps you scattered every day. And ideally some other people who, you know, same kind of philosophy or people that encourage you, whatever that means to you that, yeah, it’s so important.

Yeah, that’s great. That’s great advice. Uh, Warwick. So Sonya Sylvia, Shannon James, who we have en Reiki, uh, Elizabeth Sylvia. Thank you all for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. And for everybody who listens, when this becomes a podcast, I greatly appreciate you all, you know, work. I don’t know if you know, but, uh, I’m winding now my podcast.

So you’re one of my. Few guests. I’m gonna end it at the, I think November 2nd is the, is the last podcast episode I’m gonna do. And that’ll be a solo cast where [00:52:00] I’m talking about kind of what I’ve learned, but three and a half years, I’m, I’m just feeling ready to, to, I wanna create more time and space for, for myself to do some hiking.

Yeah. Maybe I’ll write a book. I don’t know, but I’ve really enjoyed doing the podcast, but I just feel like I need a break . There are seasons for everything. Yeah. Just because you start something doesn’t mean you have this moral GD to keep it, keep, you know, it going forever. I mean, yeah. Obviously in my case, 150 fan business, it doesn’t be hard to have a 50 hour podcast cuz you know, we don’t tend to live that long, but whether it’s 10, 20 years, yeah.

You, you have to live the life that you love and shouldn’t feel obligated to do something for him, but that’s not easy to end something. If you feel guilt. I know we can feel guilty. Yeah, you can. And, and I wanted to end it before. I’m like just dreading doing my podcast cuz I don’t dread doing it. I love doing it.

Right. Um, yeah. So [00:53:00] I wanted to end it when it felt right. And you know, I’ve one of my coaches talks about like listening to your longings or discontent, you know, when sometimes we just kind of keep going down a certain path because that’s the path we’re on and that’s what we’re supposed to do. And lately I’ve noticed, you know, I don’t really even.

I’m not feeling like posting on LinkedIn or on Facebook. And, and, um, if, and so I haven’t been, I’ve just like, I think I’m gonna kinda, I mean, this sounds weird cuz we just went through COVID but I’m gonna kind of go into hibernation a little bit. Maybe just take a, uh, take a break from even social media over the winter and just.

B, um, which is you should a big step for me because I am that have been that hyper achiever achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, and right. And I never took a breath, a breath really after I even retired. And so it’s taken me a lot of working on myself to get to this point where I feel. [00:54:00] I’m taking a break.

where it’s like, it’s okay for Emily to be yeah. And not do for a season. Yeah. It doesn’t mean you’re a terrible person. No, but those, and it’s taken a long time for me to get there. Those tapes are hard to online, you know, mm-hmm, , it doesn’t go away, uh, easily. It’s not like not, you know, prolong it, but when I go back to Australia, It’s not like, oh, there’s no pain.

It it’s painful. When I go back to sit. Cause I’m, I’m reminded of all the mistakes I made the dysfunction. When you have a lot of money and power, it tends to produce some level of dysfunction and broken relationships and leaving aside my whole role in it. It’s just like, gosh, this is this. It’s not always fun.

It’s not always good for me to go. To the old neighborhood, if you will. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I I’d like to see family, but I it’d be half for me to live there permanently, so, and that’s okay. You know, mm-hmm, , uh, you just gotta do be in the [00:55:00] environment, you know, do what. Helpful for you and living a life of obligation is overrated, you know?

Yeah. Uh, to what, even how other people say, well, this is who Emily Harmon should be. Well, they don’t get to determine that you do, right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think that it’s taken me a while to get there. Cuz when I started my own business, it’s like, oh, well you’re supposed to post, I don’t know. They, they have all this advice.

Right? You gotta get your website for SEO and then you’ve gotta post this many times a day and then you’ve gotta have video clips and you gotta, and I’m like, finally, I’m just like. I’m done. I’m gonna do what feels good to me and not what yeah. Everybody else said made them successful because it’s not feeling good to me.

well and define successful. It’s like, right. You know, what does that mean? How many likes, how many people following LinkedIn, YouTube ever would that, you know, you get to define how you, what success means. Yeah. So, so. Thank you so much for being my guest tonight. I [00:56:00] really appreciate it work. I’m gonna put you in the, uh, green room and thanks very much.

Emily. Emily, pray to be here. All right.

Thank you all for watching tonight. I really appreciate you. I appreciate everybody who listens, uh, later to, uh, when I publish this as a podcast, I, I do love doing this and I’m gonna miss it and it’s time to move on. So few more episodes and I’ll still be around. All right, I’ll see you guys next week. I’m interviewing.

Ooh, next week. I’m interviewing Barbara. She’s Naval academy grad and a friend of mine. And we’re talking about her book flight lessons navigating through life’s turbulence and learning to fly high. So that’ll be a fun interview. See you guys. Next week,

onward live is sponsored by Emily Harmon, coaching and consulting. Visit my website, Emily harmon.com to learn more about [00:57:00] me and my coaching program. I’d love to help you create a life you love living. Remember every adversity is our own personal university. Sometimes the lessons are difficult. And we must learn from our experiences.

Vulnerability is your superpower. You are lovable and worthy, and we discuss these topics and more because professional is personal. Thank you for joining us in engaging with me and my guest. I look forward to seeing you.